3D LOGO AOL Chat with Mike Westerfield - 10/24/93

html document conversion by Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley - 7/25/97

(Please note: much of the information pertaining to this 1993 AOL chat is no longer correct - with respect to AOL references, and others , etc. This html conversion is merely made made available here for historical reference pertaining to the still available 3D LOGO language offered from Mike Westerfield via the ByteWorks web site)

Date: 10/24/93
Start Time: 8:06:19 PM
End Time: 9:04:07 PM

Participants: AFA Andy, AFA Bard, AFC Leni, AFC Softy, AFL Gayle, AFL Marty,
CarlB18, LoveTennis, MikeW50, SandyE, ZippedGS

AFL Gayle : Tonight our guest is Mike Westerfield, from Byte Works, author of 3D LOGO. :)

AFA Bard : ()()()()() Applause! ()()()()()()

AFL Gayle : *Applause* AAFA Bard : Welcome, Mike!

SandyE : I'm looking forward to this....

AFL Gayle : Mike, welcome! How about telling us about 3D LOGO? You have lots of
"original" LOGO fans here. :)

MikeW50 : Pardon me for asking, but how did you get a speaker on the log? 3D
Logo, as I hope you've heard by now, is a new implementation of Logo from the
Byte Works . The project started when Roger Wagner asked me to do Logo as a
scripting language for HyperStudio Mac. 3D Logo is a stand-alone version of the
same basic language, implemented on the Apple IIGS. It's pretty compatible with
older Logos -- folks who have been using Apple Logo and Teripin Logo have had
little or no trouble switching to 3D Logo, and seem to like it a lot better, too.
There are some differences, of course, but they are additions to the older
Logos, not changes.î The major changes are to make Logo a multimedia language.
3D Logo supports movies, which you create with the same turtle graphics commands
used by standard Logos. 3D Logo also has a 3D turtle, which can literally turn
and move right out of the screen with the aid of our special 3D glasses.
Finally, if you add Talking Tools, our Logo can talk -- whatever you type, it can
say, using a variety of voice qualities.

AFA Bard : Now if I only had a floor turtle that could float- this would be

SandyE : Awesome! I'm just getting into HyperStudio Mac, but not the
scripting yet (I can only now get Addy's

MikeW50 : I'd be happy to answer questions, and later on, I'll announce a
universal door prize -- everyone

SandyE : Eyes to move)

MikeW50 : here (and anyone who reads the log very quickly!) is a winner!

AFA Bard : Wow! This kind of guest I like!!!

AFL Gayle : (Bard, you're eligible,ò too. :)

AFA Bard : Does 3D Logo still work with robotic kits like LegoLogo?

MikeW50 : The current version doesn't. LEGO is making some changes in their
interface, and I'm trying to figure out what to do about it all. Eventually, all
of our Logos should support LEGO, but for now the major problem is that there are
several LEGO interfaces, and the one from LEGO actually has an encryption chip.
We can't use it unless they tell us the codes, which they are currently using to
maintain a monopoly on software that works with their system.

SandyE : Mike, how would someone (my students for instance) who have no
experience with Logo, learn 3D Logo?

MikeW50 : Any number of ways. Logo is a great language for just
experimenting. There are lots of books that teach Logo to all sorts of age
groups -- some are targeted as low as beginning readers. In fact, my daughter,
who was in 2nd grade at the time, recognized Logo when I was just starting to get
it to work -- she said it was the game she played on the computer at school!
What age groups are you targeting, and are you looking for something they can
follow on their own, or something for a class?

SandyE : Yes, I've been able to row, row, row my boat, but now my students
have access to Macs and HyperStudio They are 6th, 7th and 8th graders. I'm
currently thinking in the line of my computer club, just experimenting with
HyperStudio and Logo

MikeW50 : I'd suggest waiting until the fall update to get very serious about
Logo in HyperStudio. The

SandyE : Should they start on the Apple with Logo?

MikeW50 : current version is a demo. You can use HyperLogo, but it might be
easier to start with a stand-alone version. Apple Logo is one choice, if you
already have it. If you don't, 3D Logo is an even better choice, assuming you
have GSs or can wait until the Mac version is out.

ZippedGS : Howdy all!

AFA Bard : Another school in our district has a dandy IIgs lab w/HyperStudio
and currently we use LogoWriter in all 13 middle schools on the IIe. Hiya

ZippedGS : HyperStudio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!

SandyE : We have an Apple Lab with Logo in place and used a lot. No GS
machines at our school

MikeW50 : Our reference manual has some introductory tutorial stuff they might
find interesting. There's lots of stuff in most school libraries, too.

AFA Bard : We're chatting with MikeW50, the author of 3D Logo!

SandyE : When do you expect the HyperStudio upgrade to be released?

ZippedGS : awesome!!! How come I've never heard of it?

AFL Gayle : Uh oh, Sandy. You have to have a GS to use 3D LOGO.

MikeW50 : That's up to Roger. The beta testing seems to be going well, and I
think he's getting pretty close.

ZippedGS : Is 3D Logo released yet?

MikeW50 :3D Logo is out for the GS. It's not out for the Mac, yet.

ZippedGS : What will the new HS be called? 4.0? 3.2?

SandyE : Uh Oh! I don't see us getting GSs, but it sounds like the Mac
version is a possibility....Mike?

ZippedGS : Who do I order 3dl from?

MikeW50 : The version numbers on the beta versions of HyperStudio are 1.1. As
far as I know, that is

ZippedGS : Can it be launched from Finder and multi tasked with Manager?

MikeW50 : what the release version will be.

ZippedGS : Are you talking about the Mac or GS version of HS?

MikeW50 : I was talking about the Mac version, but let me take a moment and
summarize what's going on:

AFL Gayle : Slow down, Zipped. Let Mike answer the questions you've asked before
you ask any more. :)

ZippedGS : ;)

MikeW50 : Roger released a preliminary version of HyperLogo for HyperStudio
Mac already. The first "real"

MikeW50 : version will be released with the fall update, and I think that
will happen very soon. We have

AFA Andy : Gayle, Mike, Bard, Sandy :)

MikeW50 : already released 3D Logo for the Apple IIGS. You can order directly
from us, from Quality Computer,

AFA Bard : Hiya Andy! We're chatting with Mike Westerfield, author of 3D Logo.

SandyE : Hi, Andy

MikeW50 : or from Resource Central. I expect to release HyperLogo for the
Apple IIGS this week. Sometime

AFA Andy : I have 3D Logo, Bard :)

MikeW50 : in the very near future, I expect to release 3D Logo for the Mac.
So, I can talk about _any_ of the version! Now, what questions did I miss? :)

AFA Andy : How much will HyperLogo GS be?

ZippedGS : How did HS for the Mac turn out from a selling point?

ZippedGS : Can it be launched from Finder and multi tasked with

ZippedGS : BTW: You DID miss a question... (above)

AFA Bard : Gotcha covered, Auri. :)

MikeW50 : I think Roger is very happy with the sales. Remember, though, I
don't work at Roger Wagner Publishing, and there's a lot about his plans I don't
know. HyperLogo GS will retail for $95. We'll sell it at an introductory price
of $50 for several months,

ZippedGS : Hi LoveTennis sounds neatto!

MikeW50 : and we also offer a bundle with 3D Logo for $85. You can also get
Talking Tools at a discount during the introductory period.

AFA Andy : Any breaks for people that already own most of your programs? :)

LoveTennis : Hi, does anyone here have any information in starting a conflict
resolution group in middle school?

MikeW50 : Andy, the specials are being sent to everyone on our mailing list.
Other than that, the best bet

ZippedGS : Oh, so it has programming functions specific to the talking
tools?!?!?!?! :)

MikeW50 : will come in a few minutes with the door prize.

AFA Andy : Ok, Mike. Thanks :D

MikeW50 : Zipped, I must have missed the question. What was it again?

LoveTennis : thank AFA Bard, I'll try it.

AFL Gayle : Mike, Zip wanted to know if you can use 3D LOGO with the Manager,

ZippedGS : and can it be launched from Finder... and is it compatible with

ZippedGS : Can it be launched from Finder and multi tasked
with Manager?

ZippedGS : (all bundled up with one question) ;)

AFA Andy : It can be used but I haven't checked to see if it will multi task yet.

MikeW50 : 3D Logo can be launched from the Finder. It is compatible with
6.0.1, and requires 6.0. As far

ZippedGS : Multitasking is a specific...

AFA Andy : It is system 6.01 compatable.

MikeW50 : as I know, it will work with all switchers, but I have not
personally tested it that way. If there are any problems, I'd be happy to
correct them -- the few bugs that have been found so far have been fixed within 2
working days, and I'd consider a conflict with the Manager that was my fault> to
be a bug.

ZippedGS : Let's say, while it is compiling, you could go back to the finder
and do stuff while its compiling

MikeW50 : Logo is interpreted -- no wait time.

AFA Andy : It doesn't take very long to compile, Auri :)

ZippedGS : ic :)

AFA Bard : How about hooks for videodisc and videotape control, Mike?

AFL Gayle : While your program on one of Mike's other products is compiling,
Zip, you can

ZippedGS : so it compiles like BASIC?

AFL Gayle : play with 3D LOGO. :)

MikeW50 : There are none in 3D Logo, but of course, you can do that from
HyperLogo. Zipped, if you mean AppleSoft, it's interpreted, too -- not compiled.
They are the same in that respect.

ZippedGS : oh ic ;) (learning experience, here) BTW: I would really be
interested in the routines you used to do everything,

AFA Andy : Auri, it's worth it. I have had a lot of fun working with it.

ZippedGS : and maybe use them in a 1WSW program or the like.

MikeW50 : A 1WSW? I'm not sure what you're after.

AFA Bard : Welcome Carl! We're chatting with Mike Westerfield of Byteworks,
author of 3D Logo.

ZippedGS : One World Software Wizards, a new GS programming/hw dev. group

CarlB18 : Greetings

ZippedGS : I just got the info on a GS DSP chip and 32 bit processor. I'm the
associate coordinator.

MikeW50 : If you wanted to create 3D programs like those in 3D Logo, the
easiest language to use, frankly, is Logo. From C, Pascal or whatever, the
amount of work to do the 3D isn't that much in addition to the

ZippedGS : note I am not a programmer, I am just interested in seeing how you
did what you did

MikeW50 : work it would take to do all of the other stuff.

AFA Bard : Mike, does 3D logo allow passing variable between programs?

ZippedGS : good question

MikeW50 : Not directly. You could write a disk file. That's not the issue it
was with AppleSoft, though,

ZippedGS : does it read files in the same way Pascal does?

MikeW50 : since 3D Logo programs can be as large as memory -- and that's
pretty big! You can also load and

ZippedGS : (I mean the data from the files)

MikeW50 : unload chunks of a program while it's running, too.

AFA Andy : There is a paint program created with 3D Logo that comes in the
samples that is pretty neat.

ZippedGS : rehi LoveTennis! rebye LT! ;)

MikeW50 : 3D Logo does have file I/O commands. They aren't exactly like
Pascal, but they are capable.

AFA Bard : Excellent! Any other goodies, besides a paint program, that users
can expect to get when they purchase 3D Logo?

CarlB18 : Will 3D logo be compatible in any way with HyperStudio GS?

AFL Gayle : Leni! You'll love hearing about Mike's programs! :)

MikeW50 : It comes with several demo programs, mostly small ones that show
how to use the multimedia features of the language.

AFA Bard : We're chatting with Mike Westerfield of ByteWorks, author of 3D

AFC Leni : I can hardly wait :-) Hi, Bard, Gayle and all :-)

AFA Bard : Multimedia features like what, Mike?

MikeW50 : Carl, 3D Logo is the standalone version. HyperLogo is basically the
same Logo, but it runs from inside HyperStudio. Bard, like movies,
text-to-speech, and 3D.

ZippedGS : oh so its one of those plug-in languages?!?!? coooool!

AFA Andy : having your GS read to you is really great!

MikeW50 : Sure. Inside HyperStudio, you can use it like SimpleScript, but
it's faster and more powerful. It's a kick to see a 3D molecule rotating in a
HyperStudio card under control of buttons!

AFA Andy : I bet it is :)

SandyE : Sounds really NEAT. You're still talking HyperStudio GS, right?
Will the Mac version do the same?

AFC Leni : I was wondering that, too, Sandy :-)

MikeW50 : Sure! I did the chemistry card first in HS Mac, and then moved
the scripts to the GS version

AFL Gayle : OK. Mike has a door prize to offer EVERYONE! (yes, even Leni and
Bard are

AFC Leni : Oooooooooh!

MikeW50 : and ran them there, too! I changed the size and color a bit, but
that was all!

AFL Gayle : eligible. ;) *Drumroll*

ZippedGS : This sounds really neat, I might have to get this!

AFL Gayle : Mike, please tell us about the door prize! But don't run away! We
STILL have a free hour to give away in a few minutes!

MikeW50 : Well, now's a great time! As I mentioned, 3D Logo for the Apple
IIGS is shipping, and HyperLogo for

MikeW50 : the Apple IIGS will ship this week. Each retails for $95. During
the introductory period, we are

CarlB18 : Door prize!! I'm sure glad I checked in here!!

MikeW50 : offering either one for $50, or the pair for $85. But, for those
of you here now, and those who read this transcript before Tuesday, you can get
another_ $10 off when you order. So, you can get a $95 program for just $40
plus shipping, or $190 worth of software for a mere $75. All you have to

ZippedGS : Now I can get it from Quality Computer's, right?

MikeW50 : do is mention the door prize when you order!

AFA Bard : Yea!!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!

MikeW50 : Zipped, for the door prize, you'll have to but direct.

AFC Leni : Fantastic!

ZippedGS : from you?

AFL Gayle : Can we order from you via email, Mike?

AFC Leni : How do we order, Mike?

ZippedGS : leave me your address in email please Mike ;)

MikeW50 : Yes. You can find ordering details in our industry connection area,
or you can e-mail me if you have questions or problems. (You can also order
e-mail.) Use KeyWord ByteWorks to visit our area.

AFC Leni : Great! Thanks, Mike :-)

MikeW50 : My e-mail address is MikeW50, Zipped.

MikeW50 : Leni, sorry, I missed the question for a moment: If you want to
order e-mail, send your name, mailing address, VISA or MC number & expiration

MikeW50 : what you are ordering, and what you expect to pay. For this offer,
then, you'd pay $40 plus shipping

MikeW50 : for either HyperLogo or 3D Logo, and $75 for the pair. Shipping
in the US is $5.

AFL Gayle : OK. It's time for our FREE hour!

AFC S2ofty : (should only take 3 months.. ;D)

AFL Gayle : *Drumroll*

AFL Marty : Rent a bulldozer from the rent-a-center, Softy.

AFL Gayle : Our winner tonight is SandyE for the word, scripting!

AFA Bard : Yippee--- the FREE HOUR!!!! Congratulations SANDY!!!!!!!!!!!

AFL Gayle : *Applause* for Sandy!

ZippedGS : C Congrats Sandy!

CarlB18 : Congratulations Sandy


AFC Leni : Yeahhhhhhh! Huzzah!!!!! Way to go, Sandy :-)

AFC Softy : (Can't get a bulldozer on the second floor tho MartDude.. ;)

AFA Andy : WTG Sandy :)

AFL Marty : Details details

AFA Andy : Sure you can Softy.

ZippedGS : *Clap*

SandyE : Thanks All!!!

AFL Gayle : You can find out all about 3D LOGO and other Logos from ByteWorks by

AFL Gayle : keyword ByteWorks.

AFC Softy : Now that's an idea Andy.. :)

AFL Gayle : Now a round of applause for our guest, Mike Westerfield!

AFC Leni : I'm on my way to check Byteworks out :-)

AFL Gayle : *Applause*

ZippedGS : Thanx Mike!

AFC Leni : Yeah, Mike!!!!!!!

AFA Bard : Tonight's log will be posted in just a few minutes in our AED New
Files Library-- tell your friends!

SandyE : Me too Leni....

AFA Andy : *Applause*

AFA Bard : Thanks Mike!!!!!

AFC Softy : running 'round in circles applauding

AFL Gayle : Thanks for coming, Mike, and MANY thanks for your wonderful door
prize! :)

CarlB18 : Thanks Mike for the update...

MikeW50 : Thanks guys! If you have any questions where you want to talk
direct, stop by ByteWorks Wednesday ºat

SandyE : Thanks, Mike...it's been very enlightening.

MikeW50 : 9PM eastern for the last of our scheduled 3D Logo seminars!

CarlB18 : Bye all! Time to mosey on to other areas.

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