APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
January 16, 1991  10 PM  ET
Topic:  synthLAB/MIDI synth
Forum Leader:  Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM)
Forum Assistant:  Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
Forum Consultants:  Greg Dig (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
                    (AFC Eddie)
Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
All Rights Reserved
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Andy Stein Fred, are you the guy who does all that neato
           music stuff??

FredChopin I am working on Schumanns entire Op.68

AFC Eddie  Sounds great.  Do you have Mastertracks, Fred?

Andy Stein Neat! Fred, do you find Diversi-zTune better than
           Synthlab, like me?

FredChopin Nope Eddie, but I do have Diversi-Tune.

FredChopin But I am not sure on comparison yet :)

Andy Stein Which do you all like better- Diversi-Tune or
           Synthlab?

Mr Toaster I have questions regarding SynthLAB and
           MIDISynth.  Is Cecys on tonight?

AFL JoyceM No, Toaster he isn't.

AFC Eddie  As far as creating music goes, Diversitune wins
           hands down.  As far as instrument sounds go,
           SynthLAB wins hands down.

Mr Toaster Well, of course... SynthLAB is not yet complete.

Andy Stein Really.  That's interesting.  How so

Andy Stein Even with its lack of editing capabilities?

AFC Eddie  Diversitune has lots of editing.

Mr Toaster Has anyone else tried Parik's NDA?

AFL JoyceM Yes.

Andy Stein I didn't realize that.  I guess I just assume a
           GUI interface has better editing tool.

AFC Eddie  Yes, it's great.

Mr Toaster I can't get it to work.

FredChopin We need more songs like Presto Agitato for
           DiversiTune

AFC Eddie  SynthLAB has no editing.

Andy Stein Great NDA!

Mr Toaster The NDA won't load whatsoever.  It just beeps and
           hangs the computer.

Andy Stein I guess that means Diversi-Tune has better
           editing! :)

AFC Eddie  That is, no editing for songs.  You can edit
           instruments.

Mr Toaster Do you need a MIDI card installed to use the NDA?

Andy Stein How much memory do you have, Toaster? Hard drive?

AFC Eddie  No, Toast.

Mr Toaster 1.25mb   40MB Vulcan  ROM 01

AFL JoyceM ....let me make some announcements first then we
           can get started .   First of all, if you have
           been under a rock lately, synthLAB is now in our
           library and we have lots, lots of song files.

AFL JoyceM NEXT - due to the world events, our chat will be
           informal and we can discuss what you all want.
           Those who want to say can, but I will let my
           staff leave if they so desire.

Andy Stein Hmmm... The 1.25 Megabytes could be the problem.
           What operating system? 5.0.2, 5.0.3, or 5.0.4?

Mr Toaster 5.0.4

AFC Eddie  Sure the NDA is activated, Toast?

Andy Stein That sounds like the problem, Toaster.  5.0.4
           requires a minimum of 1 Meg, and with only .25
           more than the minimum, more than one NDA could
           crash your system.

Mr Toaster Okay, I'll try it with 5.0.3. Will that work?

AFC Eddie  Try deactivating other Da's, Toast.

Andy Stein Well, do you have any NDAs you could temporarily
           deactive, Toaster?

Mr Toaster I tried that using FontDA installer, I
           deactivated everything I could

AFC Eddie  Try deactivating the traditional way.

Mr Toaster Okay, I can do that.

AFC Eddie  The installer doesn't totally deactivate.

FredChopin Can anyone explain why my MIDI sometimes dies out
           while I am recording in Audio Animator.

AFC Eddie  What do you mean by die out, Fred?

Andy Stein What are everyone's recommendations for the best
           Diversi-Tune and Synthlab song downloads?

AFC Eddie  Mine, of course!

FredChopin Well..as I am recording it stops recording

Mr Toaster Andy, go with the GreenWings volumes

Andy Stein What are yours, Eddie? I have lots of the
           GreenWings! Great songs!

AFC Eddie  Suggestion, Fred.  Does the AA software have a
           feature for record filter?

FredChopin yes

Mr Toaster The only problem I have found with the GreenWings
           volumes is that they don't have the necessary
           banks. have the .bnk files in the GSHK file.

AFC Eddie  Andy, try Star Trek, New Generation and Phantom
           of Opera.  More coming!

Mr Toaster Can AMS upload those so I can play half the
           SynthLAB songs I have?

Andy Stein I have both Star Trek and Phantom of the Opera.
           Great! Good job!

AFC Eddie  They're available now, Toast!

FredChopin I havent tried Phantom of the Opera

Andy Stein Thanks for the songs, Eddie!

Andy Stein Toaster, they have most of the banks here.

Mr Toaster To get dox for SynthLAB, we have to pay APDA,
           right?

AFL JoyceM Yes, Toaster.

AFC Eddie  DanW190 and I are putting together a series of SL
           songs.  Our next should be up soon.

Mr Toaster Eddie, how do you put together these songs?  Are
           you using SynthLAB to record?  Or do you convert
           from something else?

Andy Stein I would LOVE to hear some great classical songs!

Mr Toaster I agree with classical request Andy.

AFC Eddie  No.  Starting with other forms, such as
           Diversitune and Music Studio, then converting to
           MIDI, then to SL.

Mr Toaster Convert to MIDI using...?

AFC Eddie  Convert to MIDI by using my external sequencer,
           Toast.

ELECTMUSIC Eddie... how are you converting from MStudio to
           Slab?

Mr Toaster Ahh, okay.  Guess it would help if I had one.

ELECTMUSIC Ok

AFC Eddie  Fist, MStudio MIDI out to my sequencer, then back
           to MTPro.

Mr Toaster I noticed that SL uses $D5 files like SSmith.
           Shouldn't there be an easy  conversion?

ELECTMUSIC Eddie... is this all on one track?

AFC Eddie  No. Starts out as one MTPro track, then strip
           data.

Andy Stein Does everyone agree that Diversi-Tune has better
           sound QUALITY than Synthlab?

ELECTMUSIC Andy, I don't agree

AFC Eddie  Neither do I, Andy.

Andy Stein And is Synthlab better than Soundsmith,
           quality-wise?

Keith LTD  what is SL for starters

Mr Toaster Yeah, what is the difference in sound between SS
           and SL?

Mr Toaster SL is SynthLAB, a sound program written by Mark
           Cecys for Apple.  It is accompanied by Tool035,
           which plays songs in SynthLAB format.  Download
           under the AMS Library. Along with other support
           files and music files.

AFC Eddie  SL sounds support the new MIDIsynth tool, SS
           don't.

Mr Toaster Does that answer your question Keith?

Mr Toaster What is the sound difference between SL and SS?
           I mean, I can't really tell the difference?

ELECTMUSIC Eddie or Gene.... does MStudio support the MIDI
           clock of MTPro?

AFC Eddie  No, Greg.

Keith LTD  I think so these files are online

Mr Toaster Keith, was that to me?

AFC Eddie  At least in terms of Master/Slave.

ELECTMUSIC Does it matter, during your conversion, for the
           timing if they don't?

AFC Eddie  It makes it tougher, Greg, as Gene will tell you
           about my attempts.

Mr Toaster Eddie, what is the wave file for?

AFC Eddie  In what program, Toast?

Mr Toaster .bnk has the instruments, but what is the .wav
           file for (in SL)?

Mr Toaster (I have to admit, I don't really know what all
           the levers are for in SL.)

AFC Eddie  It goes along with the particular song, Toast.

Mr Toaster All the controls, attack, etc.

Mr Toaster Yeah, but what does it determine?

AFC Eddie  Those are for editing instrument sounds.

Mr Toaster The .bnk file give the instrument waveforms,
           right?

AFL JoyceM BTW, anyone who wants the official package of
           synthLAB from APDA, just send me  a check in the
           amount of $28.00 and I will order it for you.
           Leave me E-mail if you are interested and I will
           give you the particulars.

Mr Toaster Then what does the .wav file do?

AFC Eddie  I think it tells SL what instruments go with your
           song, Toast.

Mr Toaster But all the songs use the same Synth.wav file
           even though they use different  instruments. At
           least the songs that I have.

ELECTMUSIC Toaster, the wave file contains the digitized
           samples for the instrument file the bnk contains
           the instrument design data that is set from
           synthLab,ie. those slider settings

Mr Toaster Then what does the .bnk determine?

Mr Toaster Does anyone else know why Apple came out
           w/MIDISynth?  Why not SSmith?

ELECTMUSIC Yes, because SSmith doesn't support MIDI

Mr Toaster To me, I can't really tell the difference in snd
           quality btwn SL and SS.  Okay, I didn't know
           that.

AFL JoyceM There is much difference in the sound, Toaster.
           At least my tin ear tells me.

Mr Toaster Isn't that just because Huibert is still on v.95?

ELECTMUSIC Huibert needs to re access SSmith so it supports
           the new MIDI tool!!!!

Mr Toaster Of course, he'd be stupid not to.

ELECTMUSIC The new MIDI tool is a hundred times easier to
           use

Mr Toaster Does it make for smaller files not to have to
           deal with all the sep. inst.files?

ELECTMUSIC The separate inst files are very small... and
           give the songs so much more instrument color

Mr Toaster Hmm, so you're saying SS is a better way to
           implement?  Sound waveforms?

ELECTMUSIC No, I am saying SLab is a very good way to
            implement music on the GS

Mr Toaster Okay, my confusion.

AFC Eddie  I wish SS supported MIDI, tho.  So easy to creat
           new insts with digitizing.  That was to be our
           topic tonite.

Mr Toaster I bet Huibert will implement MIDI soon... probly
           in the long-awaited v.1.0

ELECTMUSIC Eddie.... digitizing is limited for designing
           instruments on the GS it takes up tooooo much
           memory

AFC Eddie  True, but still possible.

ELECTMUSIC I haven't used SSMith to any great degree, but
           the digitizing part is a limitation I would think
           even if he supports MIDI

Mr Toaster Well, it would help to be able to more easily
           edit in SSmith.

AFC Eddie  I've created a few decent SS insts from my sound
           module.  A bit noisy, tho.

AFL JoyceM SSmith is difficult to write songs for - too
           tedious for me.

Mr Toaster Keith, SoundSmith is another sound program. It is
           shareware and on AO. It's very good and will
           likely become popular.  It is used by FTA, a
           French programming group in their demos.  If you
           haven't already, I would suggest you download
           "Modulae".  You have a IIGS, don't you?

AFC Eddie  Agreed, Joyce. I like to play my songs in.

ELECTMUSIC What do you use to digitize the sounds

AFC Eddie  Sonic Blaster, Greg.

ELECTMUSIC SBlaster files types are supported in SSMith?
           (ASIF?)

AFC Eddie  No, but after I save as raw binary file, I load
           it into Audiozap and save for  SS.

Keith LTD  Mr I don't have any music programs yet whats best

ELECTMUSIC OOhhhh... Eddie you are an expert in the
           conversion process

Mr Toaster I would suggest SoundSmith and SynthLAB if you
           want cheap good progs.

AFC Eddie  Also, Instrument Designer saves as ASIF, and you
           can layer 2 samples.

ELECTMUSIC Geez... I would like to seee some of your
           conversion processes posted

Mr Toaster Eddie, come up with a program to cnvrt SS to SL.

AFC Eddie  Thanks, Greg, remember I posted the process for
           converting Mac MIDI to GS MIDI.

Mr Toaster Keith, in terms of commercial programs, others
           could probably tell you better.  Master Tracks
           Pro is one of the best, especially if you have a
           MIDI card & kbd Another popular one is Music
           Studio, by Activison, right? Also Diversi-Tune.
           Keith, it depends on what you want to do with a
           music program.  If you want to listen to other's
           creations, I would suggest dwnlding SSMITH  and
           SynthLAB.  Also, you might dwnld SoundStudio or
           AudioZap to listen to digitized sounds.

Keith LTD  I do quite a bit of writing MR

Mr Toaster Also ACER to unpack digitzed sound files.

Keith LTD  I like to listen to though

ELECTMUSIC I have Inst Designer, but can't get it to
           recognize SBlaster files.

AFC Eddie  There is a way, Greg.  First, in SB, save as raw
           data. Then, in Inst. Des., use load wave, not
           Open.  You can load 2 waves at same time, save as
           one ASIF file!  Even edit the wave shape!

ELECTMUSIC Ok.. thanks Eddie

AFL JoyceM Ed, but still no way to convert MusicStudio files
           or sounds?

ELECTMUSIC Another one Eddie.... I would like to patch my
           SBlaster disk so that I can use the software on
           any GS and save the file without the need for a
           card.

AFC Eddie  Joyce, not unless you have an external sequencer.
           The Star Trek song we just did started out as
           Musicstudio!

AFL JoyceM No external sequencer :(

ELECTMUSIC Maybe on your next keyboard Joyce....

AFC Eddie  Greg, don't know how to do that!  SB software
           needs the card.

AFL JoyceM Right, Greg..... :)

AFC Eddie  Joyce, if there's a MStudio song you REALLY want
           as a SL or other song, let me know.

AFL JoyceM Okay, Ed....if I REALLY want one, I will let you
           know :)  Thanks.

Mr Toaster Eddie, here's another job for you or Parik:
           Write an INIT program that will play SL songs on
           startup.

Keith LTD  Thanks for the info by

AFC Eddie  There is one, Toast!  Background Sound.

Mr Toaster Background sound will run SL files? I didn't know
           that!

AFC Eddie  Yes.

AFL JoyceM But Toaster, to get that version, you must send
           in the shareware fee to Parik  to get this latest
           version.  Right, Ed?

AFC Eddie  Yes, but not soundmaster, BGSound.

AFL JoyceM Thanks all...and see you next week when our
           official chat will be on synthLAB!  Thanks,
           all.....a rough night for all of us.

America Online - 1991