APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
January 23, 1991  10 PM  ET
Topic:  synthLAB/MIDI synth
Forum Leader:  Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM)
Forum Assistant:  Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
Forum Consultants:  Greg Dig (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
                    (AFC Eddie)
Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
All Rights Reserved
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AFC Eddie  BTW, the 3 hottest songs in our library are now
           MS to SL conversions!

AFL JoyceM I know....sure wish I had a sequencer :)

Nuzz       Which songs Eddie

AFC Eddie  Star trek, Bolero and Phantom of Opera <Blushing
           with modesty>

AFL JoyceM Bolero and Phantom are GREAT!!!

AFC Eddie  I did Bolero by special request.  The conversion,
           that is.  Soon to be more of those.

Elie2      Could someone answer a question about synthlab
           please?  please say you can

AFC Eddie  We can!

Elie2      First a general statement: IT'S DRIVING ME
           CRAZY!!

FredChopin I've have playing around with SL all day

Elie2      Did you get it to work, Fred?

FredChopin yeah

AFC Eddie  What kind of problems are you having, Elie?

Elie2      Your lucky

Nuzz       what do mean by "work"

Elie2      First the program doesn't work.  Then it works
           after I use backround sound, then it crashes!

AFC Eddie  You installed the tool, right?  And the CDev?

AFL JoyceM Elie, what is your system setup?

Elie2      Yes it was installed and I always get 2 kinds of
           errors

AFL JoyceM The errors say what, Elie?

Elie2      1 second IRQ's must be off, and Sound Manager
           Startup Error

FredChopin Text clock must be off

AFC Eddie  Could be a DA.

Nuzz       Do you have any Cdevs, inits, nda's and the such?

Elie2      Other than the MIDI one?

Nuzz       Yes, other than tha,t which ones

Elie2      Oh boy.  I have alot of them

AFC GaryG  Question:  Have the new BNK files been released
           yet in the "New Files" area?

AFC Eddie  Yes, Gary, they're there. The standard ones are
           there.

AFL JoyceM How much memory, Elie?

Elie2      2 megs

Nuzz       I'd look at those Elie, any ones that put clocks,
           or do timed operations

Elie2      The only one of those would be text clock nda,
           Nuzz

Nuzz       Try disabling that then

AFC GaryG  I have that G-Wing stuff, and some of the seq's
           sound really bad. They obviously needed some
           other BNKs that were not up there, Mr.Toaster
           said they were up there, but I don't see them.

AFC Eddie  There are a couple of additional BNKs we may not
           have up yet.  Gary, did you DL all the BNKs that
           are there and try them?

Elie2      Making it inactive or just turning it off?

Nuzz       Make it inactive, then reboot and remember that
           synthLab is beta, and DOES have some memory
           related bugs.

Elie2      Ok.  but what about the other problem, and the
           crash?

AFC GaryG  Yep.  I replaced all my SL stuff with all the new
           versions.  BNKs and all.

AFL JoyceM Excuse me a minute....let's get Elies problem
           solved first then we can help Gary....thanx all
           :)

AFC Eddie  OK

AFL JoyceM Elie, are you using System 5.04? and what
           launcher are you using?

Elie2      System disk 5.03

AFL JoyceM Works fine with 5.03.

Elie2      I have the tool in and the cdev also

Nagendra   Is there any info on synth lab? I'd like to write
           some stuff to use tool 35

DAGII      Anybody know of any plans to build a decent
           sequencer around SL?

ELECTMUSIC Good Question... Dag

Nuzz       I'd look at the Cdev, DA thing first Elie/ Text
           Clock has problems with other software.

FredChopin Is anyone thinking about doing some classical
           songs for SL?

AFL JoyceM ************  Okay, I have a couple of
           announcements before we get SERIOUS with
           synthLAB, etc. I talked with Bill Basham
           (DiversiTune) today....and he has not had time to
           work on the latest version of DT - he is still
           job hunting, etc....he has asked us to write him
           and bug him to get with it :). I will follow up
           with him again in March.  2ndly  For those who
           read HOT SHOT......what is the secret word?

Roy100     tempo

AFC GaryG  Tempo?

AFL Marty  Tempo

AFL JoyceM Roy...got it :)  Roy wins 1 hour of FREE connect
           time.  See...it pays to read FTFL and HotShot!

AFC Eddie  Alright, Roy!

AFL JoyceM And....if you haven't check...our download count
           on synthLAB is now at 337!  Okay...on to our
           subject, continue where we left off, before I
           interrupted :)

AFC GaryG  Wow!  Quantum can retire to Florida now.  :)

AFL JoyceM Elie....have we helped?

Elie2      I still can't understand how it crashed then
           worked again.

AFL JoyceM My suggestion would be to disable that Clock NDA
           and re-install synthLAB, the tool and the MIDI
           CDev.

Nuzz       One of the problems the tool has is that it does
           not clean up (memory) after itself. So If you
           load it after having used it, it might crash if
           memory previously used was allocated by another
           program or DA sorta techie, but that is it

AFC Eddie  Some people have said that you should reboot
           between running BGSound and SL.

ELECTMUSIC Mike...do you see Apple revising the MIDI tool to
           fix that problem

Elie2      Eddie that was the only way I got it to work the
           first time

AFL JoyceM Also, Elie, use the Finder to install :)

Elie2      The finder is all I got :)

AFC Eddie  Elie, maybe disable BG Sound.

Nuzz       It is a known problem Greg, I talked to Dave
           Lyons about it, and our stuff does have a
           workaround

AFL JoyceM Speaking of new programs for synthLAB, Mike do
           you want to mention what Triad Venture has
           available?

Nuzz       For MIDISynth we have Xcmd players for
           HyperStudio and HCGS, and 30 really neat tunes
           (done by the one and only Electmusic really makes
           stack stand out

AFL JoyceM How could one order these packages, Mike?
           Address, costs, etc?

Nuzz       And it is shipping. They are available from
           Programs Plus, and A2 Central $39 retail, less
           mail order

AFL JoyceM Program names?

Nuzz       The series is called HyperStuff Collection, and
           the 2 packages are: ClipTunes, and ClipArt Plus.
           They were both mentioned in the HyperCard review
           in InCider, that's about it. Thanks.

AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike.

AFL JoyceM Gary, you had a question about the .BNK files ?

AFC GaryG  Yep.  Using the Greenwing files, I've noticed
           that some seqs sound like hell on toast, even
           though I'm using the new everythings, BNKs, SL,
           you name it.

AFC GaryG  I know there's other banks out there, and I'm
           assuming that the GW files need these.  Any
           chance of getting them?

Nuzz       Gary, if you load the files in synthLab you can
           tell which files it wants

AFC GaryG  Yep.  And It seems to load Combo.Bnk if it can't
           find it. I can't imagine that Greenwing would
           assign channels to non-existant instruments.

AFL JoyceM Gary, what .BNK files are they looking for?

AFC GaryG  (That seems to be what's happening)

AFC GaryG  Well, one wants INSTA, which I'm not sure if
           that's a BNK or instument file.

Nuzz       OK, that is an instrument file

AFC GaryG  The others just seem to load fine, not giving the
           "Can't Find XXX.BNK", but the assignments seem
           very out of line.

AFA Gene   That particular one (InstA) is not online yet.

AFL JoyceM Okay, Gary?

AFC GaryG  I guess.  I'll just have to not use those songs
           until something comes up.

AFA Gene   Gary, do the instrument assignments just sound
           wrong, as in wrong instrumentation, or does the
           sound actually come out jumbled?

ELECTMUSIC I have a question about the Drum kit instruments
           located on a couple of the wavebanks.  Does
           anyone know how several drum instruments can be
           contained within one instrument in Slab?

AFL Marty  Greg... I'm not that up on it but I do recall
           reading that several instruments can be included
           as long as only one at a time is played.

ELECTMUSIC ok, that makes sense Marty

AFL Marty  I'm not sure of the actual mechanics of getting
           that to happen though.  (all the music talk in
           the docs is Greek to me)

ELECTMUSIC I am curious though , how one is able to design
           those instruments so that they appear as one

Nuzz       I don't understand Greg, could you repeat the
           question

ELECTMUSIC It's the same technique on MStudio and DTune.
           Yep, I am am wondering how a Drum Kit is formed
           in SLab.  What that means is that several drum
           instruments appear as only one instrument in the
           menu.

AFC Eddie  Greg, I think it's a matter of assigning one drum
           to a key.

ELECTMUSIC Eddie, thats right. But how is it done?

AFL Marty  "Each instrument file is a collection of
           instruments grouped  together in what is called
           an instrument bank." bank = 16 instruments.

AFA Gene   Yah, isn't there a bar or something that u can
           manuver to control splitting of the keyboard?

ELECTMUSIC How do they assign several sampled instruments to
           a key.  Marty... I didn't mean within a bank - I
           mean with in ONE INSTRUMENT!  one of the 16
           instruments contains several drum sounds

Nuzz       I would think that the drums were digitized as
           ONE

AFL Marty  Oh I see.  Wouldn't that be like splitting a
           synth keyboard?

ELECTMUSIC Geez.. it sounds like several different samples
           though

AFC Eddie  Multi-sampling for each instrument, by frequency,
           maybe.

AFA Gene   no - the drumkits are 4 samples each. (or 5)

ELECTMUSIC Ok, Gene  can you explain how its done

AFA Gene   Kinda, marty - they split the keyboard
           approximately by octave-and-a-halfs for the
           different samples. As i said b4, i think there is
           a screen somewhere in the pgm (forgot where) that
           has "bars" which can control the splitting of the
           keyboard into various sections. I'm not sure on
           this tho. This is vague memory from early last
           year.

ELECTMUSIC Do you know how the samples are assigned to just
           that one instrument?

AFA Gene   Ya know, I take back what I just said about
           splitting the keyboard. I don't think that was
           with the drumkits. Come to think of it, i think
           the drumkit samples are just stuffed into one
           "sample" like it is in Music Studio. The
           "stuffing" was done by Mark.

AFC Eddie  What is "Stuffing"?

AFA Gene   I dunno eddie, very very bad word usage! :)  I
           don't think it is possible for one to create
           drumkits with synthlab.

ELECTMUSIC It makes sense... what I would like to do is come
           up with some different drum kits; Sort of a Latin
           one, Rock one... etc.,  Maybe this is not
           possible.

Nuzz       Ricky Ricardo Music :)

ELECTMUSIC I tell ya 64k is mighty small

AFL JoyceM Steel drums too, Greg?

ELECTMUSIC Sure... Joyce that would be Jamician

AFL JoyceM Greg, How about leaving me E-mail exactly what
           your question is and I will give it to Mark
           Cecys.

ELECTMUSIC Ok, Thanks Joyce.  Gene, I would assume it is
           similiar the MStudio

AFL JoyceM Greg, I presume you want the sound rather than
           the rhythm?

ELECTMUSIC I see many similarities between the two

ELECTMUSIC Yes Joyce, the rhythms would be created by the
           user.

AFC Eddie  Problem with MStudio and SL is so many Banks,
           waves, insts, etc.

AFL JoyceM How about detuning the present drum set - or is
           that too easy?

ELECTMUSIC Gene, have you created your own Drum kits for
           MStudio?

AFL Marty  Has anyone used Parik's new NDA?

AFL JoyceM Yes, Marty.

AFC JohnC  absolutely

AFL Marty  How is it?

ELECTMUSIC Eddie... I love all of the sound possibilites
           with  any piece of music technology.

AFC Eddie  Agreed, Greg.

AFL JoyceM I like it...easy to use.  Only I haven't recorded
           with it yet.

AFC JohnC  Really nice, but in order to get it to run I had
           to copy the MIDI Drivers  into the drivers folder
           and then it played just fine.

ELECTMUSIC Music Shapes biggest problem is its limited sound
           possibilities

AFL Marty  Is that in the docs John?

AFC Eddie  Don't know Music Shapes.

AFL JoyceM John, so where did you have the MIDI drivers to
           begin with?

AFC JohnC  No it isn't Marty

Nuzz       You shouldn't need the MIDI drivers to just play
           songs

AFC JohnC  I never loaded the MIDI Drivers on the HD from
           the system tools disk

AFL JoyceM I am still using the old MIDI driver from
           MusicStudio - works just fine.

AFC JohnC  That's the only way it would work for me

AFL JoyceM Sounds logical, since the NDA uses the MIDI tool
           and a driver must run it :)  for MIDIng, that is
           :)

AFC JohnC  That's the Apple MIDI and the other...MIDI also

AFL Marty  Card 6850? (or something)

AFC JohnC  Right - After I loaded the drivers the NDA worked
           like a champ....:) before that it wouldn't even
           load

AFL JoyceM THe NDA is a pretty nifty program.  Parik is also
           writing another Tool program, hopefully we will
           get it soon.

AFL Marty  Don't forget... HyperCard IIGS conference
           TOMORROW night at 9.

AFL JoyceM Oh...great - thanks for the reminder, Marty.

AFC JohnC  Does anyone know when that HCGS will be released
           by Apple?

AFL JoyceM GMTA, John...I was just about to ask the same
           thing.

Nuzz       You can order it NOW John

AFL JoyceM You can?  But when will it ship?

Nuzz       This week if I'm not mistaken, it might have
           shipped already

AFL JoyceM YOu need to order it from Apple, MIke?

Nuzz       Dealer, APDA, etc part  A0027LL/A  but Apda is
           retail

AFC JohnC  Will they make it available to the discounters?

AFL JoyceM When you say dealer, you mean Apple dealer, not,
           say, Roger Coates?

Nuzz       Yes, Apple dealer

AFL JoyceM $99 still?

Nuzz       Yes, $99 retail, give them that part number, they
           can order it

AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike....

AFL JoyceM Thanks everyone for attending this synthLAB/MIDI
           synth chat.  Next week is a BYOTopic.

American Online - 1991