=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG March 27, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: Bring Your Own - discussions on: Musicstudio, Midi Synth Sequence Editor and Expanded DOC Ram. Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFL JoyceM Greetings, all... :) AFL Marty Did you know that if you exit this chat room (using the Go To نننننننننننننننننننMenu)...you'll be outside the conference hall but you won't see the AMS ننننننننmenu? AFC Eddie Really? AFL JoyceM No...hmmmm AFL Marty Only way back in is with the keyword. ELECTMUSIC Hmmmm... AFL Marty I've already reported it to Tim... same with AUT forum too. AFL JoyceM I'll check it it...BRB (I hope) ELECTMUSIC Yea... The music menu is missing GS Rules Is there going to be a prize hear? AFL JoyceM Weird... AFL Marty Told you so :) GS Rules Gee, I don't know anyone. AFC Eddie Glad to meet you, Rules!! AFL JoyceM You soon will know us, Rules - we are a very friendly bunch :) AFC Eddie Great! AFL JoyceM Okay....I have some announcements , not many...and then we can get ننننننننننننننننننننstarted. Tonight, our subject is Bring Your Own...and we have some ننننننننننننننننننننprizes left over from last week to give away - free hours, that is. ننننننننننننننننننننAlso, Activision has finally, and officially discontinued MusicStudio - ننننننننننننننننننننI tried to call them 7 times today to see if I could get some of the ننننننننننننننننننننpackages - all I got was a recording!!! I will keep trying. ELECTMUSIC I got through Joyce AFA Bruce Yeah Greg, but you had a gun pointed at them. AFL JoyceM I know, Greg...but I couldn't! I do have one package to give away in the ننننننننننننننننننننfuture, but want more. ELECTMUSIC I went through the switch board operator, though. AFL JoyceM GS Rules, let me introduce our Apple II Music & Sound staff.. Centaur C Evening Y'all! (Slab DOC's have helped a *LOT*:) AFL JoyceM I am Joyce Madden, AFL JoyceM the Forum Leader, AFA Gene is my ننننننننننننننننننننassistant and he is Gene Koh :) ELECTMUSIC The Doc's for SLab are EXCELLENT! AFL JoyceM ELECTMUSIC is one of my consultants and is Greg Dib AFL JoyceM and AFC Eddie is also a consultant and is Eddie Rosenblatt... AFL JoyceM Okay...on to the questions...it is Bring your own....no protocol :) ELECTMUSIC Question about Discontinued software... GS Rules Does anybody know anything about a SoundMaster CDev for the II GS? Centaur C I *THINK* I have figured out a way to increase DOC ram to 128K AFL Marty Did Activision really support Music Studio to a great degree? AFL JoyceM Once, Marty...way back when...two years ago! ELECTMUSIC Marty... Music Studio is one of the best entry level music programs forr نننننننننننننننننننننANY computer platform AFL Marty I have no argument there, Greg. AFC Eddie Rules, Soundmaster is a CDA, I think. AFL JoyceM Rules, what did you want to know about SoundMaster? ELECTMUSIC I think we can expect to see them make it available as long as it sells AFL Marty But Activision hasn't exactly rung any bells supporting the II. ELECTMUSIC They don't have to upgrade it... just make it available AFC Eddie True. Musicstudio 3.0 for MS-Dos is far more sophisticated. ELECTMUSIC Is Activision in financial problems AFL JoyceM Could be, Greg... GS Rules How many hours a left to give away? ELECTMUSIC and what happens to software copyrights when programs are no longer نننننننننننننننننننننavailable DavidT72 Come, come, GS... only here for the prizes? AFL JoyceM Rules, we have 5....but I will break them down to 3 hours and 2 hours = ننننننننننننننننننننtwo winners :) ELECTMUSIC sounds good Joyce AFC Eddie Copyrights remain, Greg, unless they are assigned. GS Rules David, I need to win something. AFL JoyceM Greg, I understand copyrights last forever! AFL Marty Copyrights remain in force for something like 50 years. AFA Gene Well, the MS-DOS version of MS is still going strong.. v3.0+ now. AFL JoyceM Wouldn't it be nice if someone could buy MS rights....and do it up using ننننننننننننننننننننthe new Tool ? wishes... GS Rules Joyce, Copyrights, and The II last forever. AFL JoyceM True, Rules, true :) DavidT72 I think copyrights, at least on books, I don't know about software, last ننننننننننننننننننن20 yrs ELECTMUSIC They told me to get an IBM if I wanted additional copies AFL Marty Activision would probably want a fortune for the rights to the program. AFC Eddie What an answer! AFL JoyceM And, pray tell, Greg, did you tell them? ELECTMUSIC Joyce, I was so dumbfounded with their responses... I was beyond any sort of rational conversation. AFA Bruce <> AFL JoyceM As I said, I will keep trying to contact a real voice there! AFL Marty Assuming someone could acquire the rights to M usic Studio, what do you نننننننننننننننننننthink should be changed/improved/added? AFL JoyceM BTW, last week, our contest really generated some great prize ننننننننننننننننننننgiveaways....for those who weren't here, we gave away synthLAB, ننننننننننننننننننننMidimate, Cliptunes package, and some hours. ELECTMUSIC Isn't it bad enough that new GS software is having a difficult time نننننننننننننننننننننbeing developed. We now have the situation where the older software is نننننننننننننننننننننbeing discontinued. AFC Eddie Better MIDI implementation, Marty. Scapino It would be nice to import MIDI files. AFA Gene I think MS 2.0.1 is pretty much at a dead end from a technical standpoint ننننننننننننننننننas well. It would be impossible to make any major updates نننننننto it without a total rewrite. GS Rules We need one program, that can use SynthLab, MIDI, DiversiTune, and ننننننننننننننننننSoundSmith. AFC Eddie Agreed, Gene. AFL Marty WE have a program like that, don't we? GS Rules No AFL Marty (sort of) DavidT72 At least a translator, Rules. AFA Gene funny, that's what they decided for MS-DOS MS 2.0 when they designed v3.0 نننننننننننننننننن:) AFL Marty What about Audio Zap? AFL JoyceM The AudioZap author, will be our guest in May! ELECTMUSIC As more GS software is discontinued, there won't be anything left for نننننننننننننننننننننnew owners. AFA Gene AudioZap is more on the sounds side of things; I think Rules was talking ننننننننننننننننننabout the sequence side of things. DavidT72 That's a problem I face, as I look into buying a GS, ELECT Scapino I think the MidiTools will lead to better programs.. DavidT72 I can't decide to risk it for a GS, or go for a MAC LC. ELECTMUSIC If the present software would just remain available.. there would be a نننننننننننننننننننننreason to market the GS (its software base). Scapino But I need more info to implement it with Pascal. AFL JoyceM Actually, we do have some great music programs for the GS. Presently, ننننننننننننننننننننthe synthLAB and the MidiMate and Wave Editor and the Cliptunes نننننننننpackages make this program one of the best - the future is with us. AFL Marty Or you could pick something you don't have to edit. Centaur C Has anyone here contributed to my folder (re MIDI sequence editor)? AFC Eddie Yes, Centaur, a few have. ELECTMUSIC Finally, should we still recommend the MusicStudio program to online نننننننننننننننننننننusers if it is no longer available? Centaur C :-) (I just might "get busy" on it, "final" version will be in assembler) AFL JoyceM Greg, I think we should...it is still the best entry level program and ننننننننننننننننننننall around ease of use program. AFA Gene THAT would be nice, Centaur! A sequencer with all those features in ننننننننننننننننننassembly!:) ELECTMUSIC Centaur... where is the folder? Centaur C The folder is in AMS (was the last on the list, last I looked) ELECTMUSIC But Joyce, where will they be able to get the program? ELECTMUSIC Is it new Centaur? Centaur C Marty....I'm soliciting ideas for a MIDI sequence editor. ELECTMUSIC (like since yesterday?) GS Rules What SLab Utilties does AMS have? AFL JoyceM Greg, from mail order houses until their supplies are depleted. As I ننننننننننننننننننننsaid, I will try to talk with Activision to get some answers! :) Centaur C The Folder is a couple of days old ELECTMUSIC The big suppliers are OUT! AFL JoyceM Rules, we have MidiMate, Wave Editor and ClipTunes. However, ClipTunes ننننننننننننننننننننis a commercial program from Triad Venture. The other two can نننننننننbe downloaded here. AFL Marty How about an editor that does what I mean instead of what I tell it? :) JerryF15 looking for psiware, eh Marty? ;) Centaur C Marty...all suggetions are welcome (serious ones that is :) DavidT72 Marty, Life doesn't work that way :) ELECTMUSIC Centaur... will check the folder tonight AFL Marty I will make some serious suggestions. AFL JoyceM Ah, Marty wants a Mean Editor :) ELECTMUSIC Thanks for calling it to our attention AFL Marty (Want to read what's posted first) GS Rules I am having a Sonic Blaster problem, When I record off of my CD player, it ننننننننننننننننننhas a lot of static on the recording. Any help? Centaur C 1'st version will be in Basic, only cause thats real easy to play نننننننننننننننننننwith. GS...is that in a ROM 01 machine? GS Rules Yes. DavidT72 That's proably a timing problem between the dig playback and the نننننننننننننننننننsample record timing. Centaur C From what I've heard, us ROM 01 users have to put up with some نننننننننننننننننننnoise :( GS Rules How would I fix that? Centaur C David...good point (why didn't I think of that??) DavidT72 You really couldn't directly... You would have to put the CD on analog نننننننننننننننننننtape first. I know you'll lose some clarity, but you'll probably lose نننننننننننننننننننthe static :) GS Rules How can I get a R0M Upgrade, to 3? AFL JoyceM You can't, Rules. Centaur C Change your logic board. DavidT72 See your friendly Apple dealer :) (joke) GS Rules David, then I would endup gaining clarity. AFL JoyceM You have to buy ننننننننننننننننننthe new GS with the ROM 3...no board exchange. Even if you#r ROM 1 machine ننننننننننننننننننgoes bad (logic board) they replace it with a ROM 1 board! DavidT72 Yes, you would.. now you see a tradeof that works in your favor! GS Rules How much is a new logic board? Centaur C <-- knows source of ROM 03 boards :) (over $500 each tho... ): DavidT72 That's a stupid policy! AFL JoyceM Yes, Rules. DavidT72 Only for those poor people that need replacements:) AFC Eddie Rom 1 has more other advantages, tho. DavidT72 Such as? AFC Eddie More software compatibility, for one. GS Rules Like what? Centaur C VGC chip is socketted for one. GS Rules Well, I got ROM 3's at school, so I don't have to worry. Centaur C So is the 5530 (Ensoniq) chip. :-) AFL JoyceM ----------------announcement coming up----------- GS Rules When are the Prize's being handed out? Centaur C BTW...is the 5530 socketed in the ROM 03 machines????? AFL JoyceM We are proud to announce our March contest winner - Gene do you want to ننننننننننننننننننننdo the honors? DavidT72 Calm down, GS! AFA Gene Well, we have our winner for the March AMS Forum Contest! Centaur C {S drumroll} GS Rules Me AFA Gene Congratulations to DBDERRE for his many popular SynthLAB uploads this ننننننننننننننننننmonth! ELECTMUSIC \../ AFA Gene He is the author of about a dozen or so songfiles currently in New Files ننننننننننننننننننwhich have garnered many hundreds of downloads in total already. He ننننننننننننننننننwin FIVE free hours for his efforts! See the "AMS Forum Contest" ننننننننننننننننننinformation center for more details about the contest, and once again, ننننننننننننننننننcongrats to DBDerre! AFC Eddie Alright, DBerre!!!!!!! GS Rules What about the hours? AFL JoyceM And there are some good old classics in his uploads. GS Rules Joyce, do you pick with the numbers, like in AUT? AFL JoyceM Okay....I am going to give away 3 hours of free connect time now....and ننننننننننننننننننننhere are the rules....Sort of GS Rules...except this is a word...:.. I will ننننننننننننننننننننbe giving a word to AFA Gene...I will give you a clue and when I say نننننننننGO you can start...and I have not said that word yet. Remember, only ننننننننننننننننننننpaying members can participate.. and this is for 3 hours of FREE connect ننننننننننننننننننننtime. AFC Eddie LOL, Joyce! Centaur C AFL JoyceM Giving word to Gene now... Centaur C (setting up word macro :) GS Rules ::Typing in dictionary. AFA Gene ahhh.... AFL JoyceM Okay....get ready.... GS Rules Apple II AFL JoyceM Oh...the word has 5 letters....and you can only start when I say so. ننننننننننننننننننننRemember the rules, GS Rules from AUT.. AFL JoyceM get set........ AFL JoyceM ......... AFL JoyceM ...... AFL JoyceM GO GS Rules Taste DavidT72 music Centaur C Apple GS Rules Apple AFL JoyceM We have a winner AFA Gene DavidT72 got it!!! :) Centaur C Sound DavidT72 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Centaur C WTG David AFA Gene Congrats David!! :) {S Applause} GS Rules ::Pounding Modem:: AFC JohnC WTG.....DAVID..........{S APPLAUSE} DavidT72 Thanks all, very very much (:-D) AFC Eddie Great, David! AFL JoyceM Now then....we still have 2 hours to giveaway.... AFL JoyceM and congratulations to David - quick with the fingers and spelling. GS Rules Let's do the next one with numbers AFC JohnC wow..........more? DavidT72 OK I'm ready :) DavidT72 No waaaay! AFC JohnC he's on a roll!!!!!!! AFL JoyceM Okay...giving next word to Gene now... Centaur C {S MeepMeep} DavidT72 Undloay Undolay! AFC JohnC got to run....night all!!!! AFC Eddie Bye, John! AFL JoyceM Wait...I forgot the word...have to look it up :) Centaur C Shnell Shnell!! AFL JoyceM Okay...found the word.. :) Centaur C Is anyone intrested in 128K DOC ram mod????? AFC Eddie Yes, Centaur! ELECTMUSIC Ditto Centaur C Well.....I have it all figured out!! BUT...I need to know a couple of نننننننننننننننننننthings. GS Rules Copy AFL JoyceM Okay, this word has 5 letters also and is not necessarily music ننننننننننننننننننننoriented, but AFL JoyceM is very appropriate. Centaur C is the 5530 socketted in the ROM 03 machines? AFL JoyceM Get set... AFL JoyceM Get ready.... AFL JoyceM ...... AFL JoyceM GO GS Rules neato DavidT72 synth GS Rules sound Centaur C Synth GS Rules apple Centaur C sound Centaur C music GS Rules synth AFA Gene GS Rules, you GOT IT! :) GS Rules smith AFL JoyceM We have a winner.... GS Rules what AFA Gene The word was "APPLE." GS Rules YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Centaur C I also need to know if there is a demand for the mod. GS Rules EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE AFC Eddie Way to go, Rules! GS Rules SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS ننننننننننننننننSSSSSSSSSSSSS AFL JoyceM Congrats.... DavidT72 Good work, GS! DavidT72 See, we both won! Centaur C Hmmm....time wounds all heels....err something like that. Congrats GS GS Rules David won both GS Rules My real name is david. AFL JoyceM Centaur... GS Rules Could I sell my hours? AFL JoyceM Really interested in knowing more about your proposed program. Centaur C yessssss Joyce?????? ELECTMUSIC Centaur, how would the additional DOC Ram be addressed, unless the نننننننننننننننننننننprograms were upgraded to take advantage of it? AFL JoyceM No, Rules, you cannot. Centaur C Well....CA-3 (pin 10 of the 5530) is not used. I have come up with a board ننننننننننننننننننن(design only) that will use that signal to switch 64K banks of ننننننننDOC Ram (of course, existing software would only see 64K). ELECTMUSIC Soo... new software would need to be written to take advantage of the نننننننننننننننننننننadded DOC? GS Rules We'll, I'm off to download, when will I be credited with my hours? Centaur C Yes, but real simple...would just need to flip 1 bit for access to new نننننننننننننننننننmemory DavidT72 3-5 days, GS ELECTMUSIC Maybe...a synthLab type sequencer could be used providing an addition 8 نننننننننننننننننننننvoices ELECTMUSIC available from the new Doc Ram Centaur C I >never< received credit (from billing) for the 3 hours I have won here ننننننننننننننننننن:-( AFC Eddie That would be great, Greg! ELECTMUSIC That doesn't sound impossible to do. DavidT72 Got to go, all. Thanks again so much. And GS, don't forget about the نننننننننننننننننننanalog tape from CD...should clear you right up. Centaur C Elect...that would be a pain, the memory is NOT addressed as 128K نننننننننننننننننننcontiguous. AFL JoyceM Thanks, David...and congrats on your 3 hours Centaur C (it would be 2 user selectable 64K banks) AFA Gene Thanks for coming, David! DavidT72 Thanks again... see you next week! :) AFL JoyceM Ah, Harold, like the old PCPI card and using AppleWorks on the Franklin. Centaur C I may have problems with clearing existing boards, my design is a نننننننننننننننننننseperate board that would plug into the 5530 socket, and have a نننننننننننننننننننsocketet over the SOUND.GLU chip (to get refresh and MUX signals). AFL JoyceM computer..using its 64 k and the 64 k on the PCPI card? AFA Gene Got to go sweep thru the forum... see y'all next week! :) AFL JoyceM Thanks, Gene....night AFC Eddie Bye, Gene! AFA Gene BTW, Centaur... I wouldn't stress myself over a bank-switchable DOC RAM ننننننننننننننننننat all because of the fact that at most 2 or 3 freewarere programs نن will eventually take advantage of it...not worth the effort, IMHO. Centaur C Joyce...yup. ELECTMUSIC Nite Gene Centaur C Gene...I'm thinking of it as something that people playing around with نننننننننننننننننننnew sounds could use (would allow a person to compare two 64 k sounds ELECTMUSIC I also inclined to agree with Gene AFC Eddie Still a good idea, I think. AFL JoyceM Personally, I would like to see a sequencer for synthLAB first. AFA Gene well, that could be done just as effectively by keeping a RAMdisk in ننننننننننننننننننmemory and then saving and loading the files. Centaur C This would be a "programmers" hardware "tool" and not nessecarily for نننننننننننننننننننthe "consumer" ELECTMUSIC I think it would need a complete package with software AFA Gene yeah, well i agree with eddie also that it's a novel idea! AFA Gene a bientot! ELECTMUSIC It sort of reminds me of the Mods done to synth keyboards Centaur C I figure I'll build at least 5 or 6 just to be able to say "I wuz First!" :) AFC Eddie Patent them, too! AFC Eddie Just in case! AFL JoyceM Right, Harold - good idea, but I am not a tech person, so I have to rely ننننننننننننننننننننon you guys to do it first :) Centaur C Eddie....maybe! (would be my 4'th micro patent) AFC Eddie WOW! Centaur C (probably wouldn't qualify for patent, (c) definetly) AFC Eddie Hardware = patent. Centaur C board design = (c) DanW190 thanks for the help Greg! AFC Eddie Yes, you're right. DanW190 No, I know what a patent is, what's the patent ON? :) Centaur C Eddie...I've been in the Micro world for about 20 years..... ELECTMUSIC Well... I'm going to be steppin out of here... no problem Dan, anytime AFC Eddie Bye, Greg. ELECTMUSIC Nite everyone Centaur C Dan...a method of increasing DOC ram to >64K DanW190 bye! DanW190 AWESOME!!! Centaur C Centaur C (I *might* be able to go as high as 512K, not sure yet) DanW190 I write a lot of songs for Jupiter Systems in Soundsmith, and I نننننننننننننننننننabsolutely HATE running out of DOC space.. I can't get any good, نننننننننننننننننننdepth(ful?) drums or long sustaining instruments...which makes me نننننننننننننننننننwonder - when programs check on how much DOC space is free, do they نننننننننننننننننننautomatically assume there's 64 k or to they do an actual hardware نننننننننننننننننننcheck on the DOC free space? Centaur C sustain = loop on a short segment of the wave (intead of keeping نننننننننننننننننننdigitized sound). Dan...I don't know. I suspect all stuff assumes 64K ننننننننننننننننننن(thats all Apple gave us) DanW190 Btw: Joyce - what should I do with my SL song I sent out? Up it? Keep it? AFL JoyceM Thanks all for attending....have to go do AFL stuff. AFC Eddie Goodnight, Joyce!# AFL JoyceM Up it, Dan...it is great - and thanks :) DanW190 Cool! AFL JoyceM ----------------log off--------------------