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APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
MAY 1, 1991  10 PM  ET
Topic:  SynthLAB
Forum Leader:  Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM),
Forum Assistant:  Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
Forum Consultants:  Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
(AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS)
Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
All Rights Reserved
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Cappy      Secrets of Synthlab?

AFC Eddie  Secrets of SynthLAB!  WOW!

Cappy      (I know..I know...wait and see)

AFC Eddie  Shh!  Don't give them away!

AFL JoyceM enticing wyrm!!!

Cappy      Are they new and exciting no-one-knows secrets,
                or secrets like if you do "About SynthLab" it plays the
                current song on a keyboard?

AFL JoyceM Cappy, you never know :)

AFL JoyceM Okay.... Tonight's discussion is on synthLAB - if
                    you haven't downloaded this program, you can play songs with
                    Parik's NDA and we have hundreds (well maybe 99) song files
                    for this program.

DelaneyG   Has anyone encoutered problems with background
                   music crashing on synthlab songs

AFA Parik  delaney - email me and i'll send you a new
                  version

AFL JoyceM Delaney, Parik is the one who wrote that program.

AFA Parik  (will send ya the file right now Del.)

AFL JoyceM Parik, any new programming you have done for
                    synthLAB or the like? Nuzz (Mike), anything new from Triad
                    Venture regarding music/sound that you would like to
                    announce/mention?

Nuzz        Still working on the sound package Joyce

Nuzz       Full details in the ClipTunes folder in the DC
               area.

AFC Eddie  Anyone got SL questions?

AFL JoyceM Okay...tonights chat is about synthLAB.

AFA Parik  why aren't people making cool synthlab songs?

Cappy      Lack of Instruments, I'd imagine!

AFL JoyceM That is a good question.  Eddie seems to be the
                    only one right now.

Darkfalz   Is there any way to make your own custom SL bank?

SeanS10    anyone figure out a way to make synthlab player
                  do multiple songs in sequence?

Cappy      Superfreak was pretty good.

AFL JoyceM Then, we need an instrument designer program for
                    SL?

MDW Flyer  Trying to work out the midisynth tool library for
                   Complete Pascal.

Darkfalz   would be real nice

AFA Parik  yes sean, its a bit complex but can easily be
                  done.

AFL JoyceM How, Parik?

Cappy      There is an instrument maker for Slab.  It
                compiles digitized files into a bank

Darkfalz   I mean, the great thing about SS is that you can
                   make your own instruments and make songs from real songs
                   with the real instruments

Nuzz       Instrument designer? thats what SynthLab is

AFA Parik  (to "jukebox" slab songs, you must be a
                  foreground application like a nda or s16 program and moniter
                  MidiSynth for a End-Of-Sequence message.) No one's done it,
                  because all songs are "backgrounded".

AFL JoyceM Sooooo, Parik, how about you writing a jukebox
                    NDA?

Cappy      How come all my digitized soundsmith instraments
                are relativly large(audiozap)?

SeanS10    also would be nice if SLplayer would play
                  in between applications.

AFC Eddie  I wonder of the Softdisk jukebox will do that?

AFL JoyceM Sean, what do you mean?

MDW Flyer  Would be nice to have the hook into Finder for
                   between apps play!

AFL JoyceM Speaking of AudioZap - Ian Schmidt will be our
                    guest next week - he wrote AudioZap!

Cappy      Allright!

Scapino    I think he meant continuously as you switch apps.

Darkfalz   I've never really fooled around with MIDI, but
                   w/Synthlab and my Audio Animator can I use MIDI to a good
                   extent if I got a decent keyboard?

SeanS10    no...when you change aps the song would restart
                  or something

AFC Eddie  Yes, Dark.  With Midimate you can do even more.
                  Record a sequence with AA, convert to SL with Midimate.

AFL JoyceM Sure can, Dark

Darkfalz   How much would I need to spend on a keyboard?

Cappy      Uh huh, Dark

MDW Flyer  No reason why not Dark

Scapino    $300 bucks for one with Midi capability.

AFL JoyceM Dark, a good one for around $400

Darkfalz   hmm...  I'll have to get one eventually

MDW Flyer  Better one for around $700

Cappy      buy a used one since a keyboard doesn't really
               'wear and tear'

Darkfalz   Great one for around 1500... I get the picture

Cappy      for a mere $3000, you could start a band with
                one!

SeanS10    its the same with everything, dark

AFL JoyceM I think a ball park figure would be between $300
                    and $400.

Darkfalz   I was basically just wondering about base
                   price... great..

Scapino    Ensonique SQ1 for $1500

AFL JoyceM Be sure to get one with MIDI in and out

AFC Eddie  Multi-timbral capability is a great feature,
                  Dark.

Cappy      I'd sell you mine, but then I'd have way too much
                desk space.

AFL JoyceM Electmusic is one of our experts on MIDI
                    keyboards.

SeanS10    we need a gs specific AOL program, too

MDW Flyer  Write to Sam Ash store in New York.  Good
                   catalog.

ELECTMUSIC Parik, I don't understand how the synthLab files
                     are background ie, NDA's

Cappy      (of course, then I wouldn't have to listen to
                those dorky songs my friends always play)

AFC Eddie  LOL, Cappy!

Darkfalz   what does multi-timbral do?

AFA Parik  greg: apps start them up (and midisynth plays
                  them using interrupts).  Then the application doesn't bother
                  with it anymore.  Foreground would monitor the song every
                  now and then to see how its going.

AFC Eddie  It allows you to play back more than one
                  instrument sound thru the keyboard at one time.

Nuzz       Greg, you can't do a whole lot in a callback
               routine

Cappy      you mean no text screen?

Darkfalz   ahh...  Does the keyboard "DL" the songs and
                   instruments like printer driver and text files or does it
                   get it byte by byte?

AFC Eddie  MIDI transmits data to the keyboard, Dark.  Event
                  by event.  The MIDI interface is the medium.

ELECTMUSIC Ok, Never thought of it that way... Thanks

Darkfalz   So Keyboard's don't have any RAM memory..?

AFC Eddie  yes, some do.

Scapino    You can also do SysEx to dump instruments, and
                  music all at once.

AFL JoyceM Dak, some do.  My Roland D-5 does.

Cappy      Say, will there ever be another SynthLab version?

AFC Eddie  Yes, but you need multi-timbral to play back full
                  sequences.

Darkfalz   but what is really gained by having
                   multi-tymbral... can't you just play it out of the AA into a
                   reciever/speaker type of thing??

Nuzz       Parik, does your SynthCreate load rSounds

AFC Eddie  No, Dark.  Your keyboard will only play one inst.
                  at a time without it.

ELECTMUSIC I would think most keyboards have a Ram memoery
                     with battery backed up

MDW Flyer  Nuzz, where are rSounds documented?

Nuzz       In HCGS manual, and Technote

AFA Parik  no nuzz, didn't even have one to test it

AFL JoyceM Cappy:  no, maybe the tool but not synthLAB.

Darkfalz   yes, but why PLAY out of the keyboard at all?
                  Can't the AA shoot it out as an audio RCA signal for a
                  normal speaker?

AFA Parik  (and its not like any digitizers even make them
                   :)

AFC Eddie  No, Dark, you're confusing MIDI with digitizing.

Nuzz       Our sound thing in HCGS Imports waves into
               rSounds. Would be nice to put em back

AFC Eddie  The keyboard creates the audio signal.

ELECTMUSIC Midi is not an audio signal, its a digitial
                     communication language

Darkfalz   Can't the GS be a medium to transfer the midi to
                   a normal audio though?  Like input with Synthlab midi and
                   play out of output jacks, and you won't have to have
                   multi-timbral.

Cappy      Dark:  That's what Synthlab is!

ELECTMUSIC Yes through a Midi keyboard or the GS.

AFC Eddie  Yes, but then you are limited to the insts
                  provided by the software.  With multi-timbral, you can have
                  all the sounds in your keyboard.

Darkfalz   okay... I see now... thanks Eddie

ELECTMUSIC or any Midi instrument

Scapino    Also, you can't beat a keyboard for ENTERING
                  music.

AFC Eddie  Right, Greg.

AFA Parik  if you wanna have fun, make a wavebank full of
                  digitized voices (I used sculley sounds like "Good morning,"
                  "Introducing", "Mac", etc) and play some of the Slab songs.
                  It sounds cool.

Darkfalz   true scapino, entering via keyboard (GS keyboard)
                   is a pain.

AFL Marty  (but you can beat a midi drum :)

AFC Eddie  yes, that's my objection to Soundsmith.  Without
                  MIDI, it's like using a spreadsheet to create tunes.

ELECTMUSIC SynthLab turns the GS into a Midi'd instrument

Darkfalz   Is FUN gonna make a SS update with MIDI sometime
                   soon?

AFL JoyceM An even better way would be to take an actual CD
                    recording or tape and be able to input it directly into
                    synthLAB.

AFC Eddie  Wouldn't that be great, Dark!

Darkfalz   need some complicated software, joyce

AFA Parik  Oh, btw, I've looked into converting
                  .MOD/NoiseTracker/etc songs into ssmith,

AFL JoyceM Of course, no single instruments but an easy way
                    get the songs into the  computer.

AFL JoyceM True, Dark.

AFA Parik  two big problems - they use LARGE insts
                  (sometimes > 400k!) and there are more effects in them.  :(

AFC Eddie  Joyce, you can get sequences on disk, play them
                  through your MIDI keyboard, and record into SL!  But you
                  need a sequencer.

AFA Gene   Parik: the PCmusic people seem VERY interested in
                  #GS<-->MSdos<-->Amiga stuff.

Darkfalz   I was thinking about something like that... it
                   would have to pick out each instrument (and not make a
                   different instrument per chord/note) and also translate it
                   to sheet music in real time You'd need like 22 MHZ transwarp

AFA Parik  PC music stinks, it converts all the mod files
                  into >1< track! YUCK. (SBlaster)

AFL JoyceM And, Mac stuff, Gene.

Scapino    You'd need special hardware to filter only one
                  instrument at a time.  

Darkfalz   It could be done with software.   I know, sean

ELECTMUSIC For SysEx dumps, I hope they support MidiEx!

Darkfalz   if you want industrial strength coolant systems

AFA Parik  MOD is a amiga sound format, real nice songs (and
                  HUNDREDS of them).  Euro stuff.

SeanS10    i can get you a zipgs for 200 bucks

AFA Parik  for the most part, lot of acid-head songs.  I
                  like them.  :)

AFA Gene   Parik, have you hooked up with Rob <PCRobO> yet?
                  He was looking for someone to work on SS<-->MOD.
                  (specifically that conversion)

Cappy      I always wanted to convert the MIDI signals
                through the phone line.  So you could play your friends
                 keyboard, and stuff(even if he lives in Calif!)

Darkfalz   Amiga has 6 voices?

MDW Flyer  Has anyone seen a packing program for the GS that
                   reads ZIP'd files?

AFA Parik  I really have no reason for SS->Mod, Mod->SS
                  would be nice but infeasible right now.

Scapino    Neat idea Cappy.

SeanS10    the new version of agate unzips files

Cappy      I think ther'd be to much line noise for it,
                though.  You might play Axel.F and he might hear Moonlight
                Sonata

Darkfalz   hehe

AFC Eddie  Now that's conversion!

Darkfalz   or vice versa.

AFA Parik  it would be too slow Cappy, MIDI is 19.2k baud

Cappy      I knew there was a reason....

Darkfalz   just run a fiber optic line from your house to
                   his.... :>

AFA Parik  or maybe even more, I'm not sure.  I think
                  perhaps 38.4k

AFC Eddie  Or a MIDI cable!

Scapino    Nothing afew fiber-optic lines won't cure.

Cappy      By the way, what kinda amps/volts do MIDI cables
                carry? I wanna put some monitoring lights on them...

AFL JoyceM Why would you want monitoring lights?

Scapino    5 volts, milliamps.

MDW Flyer  normal digital voltage.

Cappy      (I'd also need the pinouts, huh?)

Cappy      Just for fun, Joyce..

MDW Flyer  The pinouts and midi interface schematics are
                   public domain in many books.

SeanS10    anyone going to do some more floyd tunes for SS?

AFL JoyceM Scapino, nice to see you again thanks for coming
                    by.

Cappy      Sean:  Someday I might finish Money.

SeanS10    let me know when you do...

AFL JoyceM would be nice if SS had MIDI input capabilities.

AFC Eddie  Yes, Joyce!

Cappy      (of course, with all the unfinished songs I have,
                Money might be a while!)

SeanS10    anyone heard anything about system 6?

AFL JoyceM But I am not sure we will see another update.

Cappy      (I even have Leroy from MCS half-entered.)

Cappy      Sean:  Supposed to have a Mac FST!

SeanS10    also an ms dos fst and multi-tasking from what i
                  hear...

AFL JoyceM For synthLAB we have sysExGS and MidiMate (demo's
                    in our library), but what else do you all feel we need with
                    this program to make it complete?

DanS73     Do you need a keyboard to make songs from SL?

AFL JoyceM Yes, Dan.

AFL JoyceM Also we have ClipTunes by Triad Venture (sorry,
                    Mike)

Cappy      I dunno...it was one of the two...

MDW Flyer  Dan, are you asking if a keyboard is needed for
                   output or input?

Cappy      Joyce: A sequence editor.

DanS73     What is the difference between a keyboard and a
                 sequencer?

AFC Eddie  A keyboard plays instrument sounds.  A Sequencer
                  records performance info, such as songs, in tracks.  For
                  playback.  Almost like a recorder.

MDW Flyer  Sequencers are like taperecorders.

DanS73     I was asking about input.  I already have SL
                 downloaded with many tunes.  It's great!

MDW Flyer  SL will play through a midi equiped keyboard.

AFC Eddie  With SL, you can use a keyboard for input or
                  convert MIDI files with Midimate.

Nuzz       How would/do you people use music on your GS?

DanS73     I'll have to get one. any suggestions on good
                 equipment?

MDW Flyer  Sequence sound tracks for home video editing.

ELECTMUSIC I use the GS for creating Music!

Cappy      Nuzz:  I've always perferred Soundsmith..

AFL JoyceM I use the GS to enjoy listening to my creations
                    and others.

MDW Flyer  Daughter uses it for chorus practice.

SeanS10    hey, cappy, did you do In the flesh? for SS?

AFC Eddie  I use it for composing!

DanS73     I use the music to back me up when I play the
                 guitar.

Cappy      Nope.  It was pertty good, though!!

AFL JoyceM Also, with a MIDI keyboard, it makes an honest
                    musician of you too :)

SeanS10    it was that...downright excellent

AFL JoyceM Good idea, Dan.

Cappy      Did you get 'Little.respect'?   That one is
                great, too!  My compliments to the  chef.

MDW Flyer  And it makes amature musicians sound even better.

Cappy      There's also 2 new songs and some pictures coming
                out for soundsmith this week.

DanS73     I'd like to see a jukebox function for SL.  Is
                 that on the way?

SeanS10    cool.  i like the new graphic player Ferrari did

Cappy      Yeah...it's one of those and also a new title
                screen.

AFL JoyceM I would too, Dan.

MDW Flyer  Joyce.  What are the secrets rumored about SL.

SeanS10    i'll be sure to grab them...

AFA Gene   Dan: Softdisk is working on it. Contact
                  screenname Softdisk to bug him about releasing the new SDGS
                 MIDI Synth jukebox as soon as possible :)

Cappy      YEAH!  What about these supposed secrets?

AFL JoyceM No secrets rumored about SL, just some hints and
                    tips that we offer if the question arises.  We have some
                    info that will be put in a SL folder within the month that
                    will help.

DanS73     I've downloaded soundsmith but I've yet to get
                 the hang of entering songs.

AFC Eddie  I have a secret for those who use Midimate to
                  convert MIDI files to SL...

DanS73     Do you need a keyboard for that?

AFL JoyceM Yes, Eddie?

AFC Eddie  If you use Mastertracks or AA to edit the MIDI
                  file, don't change the velocity on a part of the track
                  first, or Midimate can't convert it.  Get rid of all the
                  program changes also.

AFL JoyceM No, Dan you don't.

Cappy      Dan:  A while ago, I uploaded a file that
                explains the SS editor.

MDW Flyer  Greg.  How many Music Studios were sold for the
                   IIgs market.  Any idea?

DanS73     Cappy: I'll have to look for that. Thanks.

ELECTMUSIC Geez, I would assume alot.

Nuzz       Program changes are not directly supported in SL
               sequences.

ELECTMUSIC but, I wouldn't have idea of an eaxct number

MDW Flyer  Curious about how many folks are using the GS
                   musically.

AFC Eddie  Not only program changes, but controller data as
                  well.

ELECTMUSIC MStudio is out of production

AFL JoyceM If I had the time, I would use it more.  SL is
                    great and with MidiMate and Mastertracks, we really have it.

Nuzz       right Eddie

AFC Eddie  So, before converting, you must edit them out.

DanS73     I'd like to see a background program play music
                 while I'm working on something else.

ELECTMUSIC ie... MStudio is no longer available for purchase

AFL JoyceM Dan, you can with Background Sound CDA by Parik.

SeanS10    get SL player...tis an NDA

DanS73     Does background sound run like a juke box or only
                 one song at a time?

AFC Eddie  One at a time, Dan.

AFL JoyceM One at a time, Dan

Cappy      One at a time, Dan.

AFC Eddie  GMTA!

AFL JoyceM :)

AFL JoyceM What was it that you all felt we need for SL?

AFL JoyceM program that is?

DanS73     In music studio, when trying to append, the
                 program adds notes. what am I  doing wrong?

AFC Eddie  Sequence editor.

MDW Flyer  Editing features seem to be the main focus.

SeanS10    Juke box function

AFC Eddie  Never heard of that, Dan.

Cappy      A load instrament function like SS>

AFL JoyceM I know of several people who have mentioned that
                    they are working or thinking of doing a SL sequence editor -
                    but so far - vapor ware!

Nuzz       How would you like to edit the sequences

MDW Flyer  Dan, are you copying to clipboard?

DanS73     no..

AFC Eddie  Track by track, note by note.

AFL JoyceM Note by note for me.

DanS73     I'm loading seperate tracks from disk.

Nuzz       In SL, it uses sequence Items..

AFC Eddie  With measures indicated, like Mastertracks!

MDW Flyer  I'm used to editing using MTjr.  Measure by
                   measure.  Note level would be nice.

AFC Eddie  Yes, use Mastertracks as a model if possible.

AFL JoyceM I have a problem getting rhythms to match my
                    regular playing :)

MDW Flyer  Punch in/out is chancy for someone with as many
                   thumbs as mine.

AFC Eddie  Do you record the rhythms first, Joyce?

AFL JoyceM I try, Eddie, but then I have a problem with my
                    timing on the theme! :)

AFC Eddie  Even while listening to the rhythm track?

DanS73     Thanks all for the info.  I've got to go.

AFL JoyceM (I don't count well... :))

AFL JoyceM Yes...I get all thumbs, so to speak!

AFC Eddie  Maybe you're using the wrong rhythm for your
                  song.  Slow it down if you have to, then speed it up again
                  later.

AFL JoyceM No, I can play it right on my big organ...but get
                    stymied on the smaller keyboard. I know...patience, patience
                    :)

AFC Eddie  Right!

Cappy      practice, practice!

AFC Eddie  You need to learn it on the D5, not the organ.

AFL JoyceM that too, Cappy.

AFL JoyceM That I know, Eddie... :)

AFL JoyceM Mike, did we help you with your questions re a
                    sequence editor?

Nuzz       Yes Joyce, every bit helps :)

AFC Eddie  Thanks for considering it, Mike!  Joyce, what
                  kind of organ do you have?

AFL JoyceM A 3 manual Wurlitzer.

AFC Eddie  Nice!!!!!!!!!!!  Do you use footpedals?

AFL JoyceM I rattle windows and pictures on the walls all
                    the time.

AFL JoyceM I do, Eddie.

AFC Eddie  WOW!

Cappy      My father used to have an old Wurlitzer jukebox.

AFL JoyceM Those were the days, Cappy....

Cappy      sold it for a nice chunk of money(we were
                restoring a '56 Austin Healey and it need paint more than we
                needed a nice Juke to look at)

AFL JoyceM Eddie, the footpedal are 26 keys.

AFC Eddie  Unbelievable.  That's quite a skill, Joyce.

AFL JoyceM Sure is Eddie, especially when I can't walk down
                    the street and chew gum at the same time - kidding!

Cappy      Now all she needs are 26 feet.

AFC Eddie  You might be able to get the Wurlitzer MIDI-ized.

AFL JoyceM No Eddie, I have inquired - too much involved and
                    too much $$$

Cappy      (she could stick a MIDI keyboard under the
                footpedals)

AFL JoyceM :)

AFC Eddie  LOL!

AFL JoyceM ----------------------- log off-------------