=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG May 29, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: Bring Your Own - SynthLAB, Sound Librarians Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFL JoyceM Seeing as how we have such a huge crowd tonight, I have no announcements, and we can discuss whatever you all want. Mike, anything new from Triad? Nuzz we're trying to get the sound disk together.. slow going .... AFL JoyceM Want to tell us what the sound disk will do/have? Nuzz Well, it will have a stack that converts AE, BIN, HS,Midisynth Wav,Futuresound files to HCGS, and exports back. It will let you play with the HCGS snd header and adjust it. It will digitize from most cards including a Mac Recorder And if I can work something out with Mike Westerfield support his Talking Tools AFL JoyceM Including the MDIdeas card, Mike? :) Nuzz Yes Joyce that too AFL JoyceM OH...GREAT! on both...the talking tools and the MDIdeas card! Any release date, Mike? Nuzz I wish I knew Joyce. Still shooting for KC but it may be late AFL JoyceM Wish I were going to KC... Britespot When is it? KC I mean Nuzz KC is Mid July 16-21st I beleive AFL JoyceM They are supposed to show the new System6 and a new GS? so rumor has it! AFC Eddie New GS????? Nuzz I'm hoping to show "Form Thing" there too Britespot No way, no new GS AFL JoyceM Well, one with 2 meg so a GS can run HCGS without having to add memory. AFL JoyceM Mike, what is Form Thing? Nuzz Form THing is a WYSIWYG form management program. Part Paint program, part desktop publisher, part page layout will print custom forms or paper sizes right from the printmanager paper size list. So if you want to make a neat letterhead for example, plop on an Icon for a logo, Import some text, and away you goooo Britespot Sounds really good, practical and fun! AFL JoyceM A self booting program, Mike, or one that works within another program? Nuzz It should be a Major release AFC Eddie Sounds exciting, Mike. Nuzz It is standalone Joyce Nuzz Jonah Stich is doing most of the programming and he's doing an Outstanding job AFL JoyceM When will it be released, Mike...and the price and how does one get it! Master2 Anyone know where I can find Tech info on Tool 035 (MidiSynth)? Nuzz No release date yet Joyce or price, but it should be from $69-$79 retail AFL JoyceM Thanks, Mike. Nuzz what kind of info AFL JoyceM Master, thru the doc that come with the program from APDA. Or thru the tech notes that Apple releases. Nuzz There's no tech notes on that. The apda stuff has the tool calls, file structures, etc Master2 I looked through Apple's technotes and there's nothing. Master2 I thought I saw same tech notes on it somewhere here before. AFL JoyceM HmmmmI thought I just saw some...let me look. BRB Britespot If this is useful stuff for you Ed, I have a bookcase full of tech notes AFC Eddie Great! Nuzz Master, what plans do you have for MS Master2 MS? Nuzz MidiSynth Master2 Oh. They're not for me -- for a user on my BBS that writes some great GS progs. AFL JoyceM Sorry, the notes I saw were for Audio Interchange File Format $D8. Nuzz If you have specific questions, I might be able to help Master2 He's just looking for the location and how to use it. Anyone heard anything about a commercial version of SynthLab? Nuzz Now that you're all here, is anyone going to do a MS version of Wild Thing AFL JoyceM :) AFC Eddie Which version, Mike? Nuzz From the movie Major League AFC Eddie Who performed it in the movie, Mike? Nuzz dunno AFC Eddie Is it the same as the Troggs version? MDW Flyer It is the Troggs version. circa 68 or 69. AFC Eddie Oh, I can do that for SLab! Britespot Oh yeah, I like that song! (brings back memories) AFC Eddie My band, the Dudes, did that! Nuzz Great. Can you really do it up with custom instruments and all MDW Flyer It got alot of play in the dorm on saturday mornings. Britespot It was great for groups that couldn't sing (sorry Ed) AFC Eddie You want custom instruments? What kind? AFL JoyceM Ed can sing? AFC Eddie Gee, thanks, Linda! Britespot Ed, I was typing that before your line went up Nuzz Well, most songs start to sound the same using the same instrument definitions MDW Flyer Any synth users want to help me out on a programming project? Nuzz Ask Greg for details on that AFC Eddie Sure, MDW! AFL JoyceM All Rock songs sound the same! IMHO MDW Flyer I'm tired of not having a decent sound libraian for my Kawai K-5, and Casio AFC Eddie The GS needs a sound librarian!!!!!! MDW Flyer I think there is a general need for a librarian but would like to make it as Britespot Pardon my ignorance, what is a sound librarian? AFC Eddie Linda, it's a program for storing and editing sounds created by synthsizers. Britespot thanks MDW Flyer universal as possible...With only the synth specific sheets I have I'm at a disadavantage to know how much commonality there is in the machines codes. SysEx works for many patch storage exercises on the Casio CZ 1000 (&101). ELECTMUSIC I am interested MDW!!!!!!! AFC Eddie There are great universal librarians for the Mac. We need a GS version! ELECTMUSIC ? MDW are you talking about SysExGS by Lindsay Hough? MDW Flyer but doesn't help out on the Kawai at all. The Kawai has several dozen unique values for its additive sound creation process. Britespot Well, this is fun, but definately over my head (I listen not compose). MDW Flyer Probably 80 -90 values to be stored and edited. Are other synths this complex MDW Flyer Who uses which synth out there, and what would you like to see in a librarian? AFC Eddie Yes, some are more, MDW! Jyrenac synth like synthesizer? ELECTMUSIC I do AFC Eddie Yes, Jyrenac. Jyrenac ooh... MDW Flyer Yep, Jyrenac Jyrenac i haven't really had any experience with sound librarians ELECTMUSIC MDW , what are you using to store CZ1000 sounds on the GS?????? AFC Eddie MDW, one important thing is the ability to utilize the parameters of the synth to edit sounds within the program. Jyrenac i don't even have MIDI AFL JoyceM Michael, I would also like to see a librarian :) ELECTMUSIC I agree, Ed Jyrenac i uploaded a song, but it was for Music Studio, without MIDI.. MDW Flyer If your interested, please Xerox the spec sheet for your keyboard and mail a AFL JoyceM Music Studio is a great program you can use it with MIDI or without. Nuzz Jy, do you have Midisynth or SynthLab? Jyrenac i have both, but no MIDI MDW Flyer copy to me. Greg - MIDI Gizmo works for the Casio, but offers no editing. Jyrenac usually, I don't compose on the computer.. i'm working with a sequencer and rhythm machine on a Yamaha (V50) ELECTMUSIC It doesn't store a bank of sounds MDW Flyer MasterTracks jr. will store program change sequences, but it balks at dumps. AFL JoyceM Eddie, would by spec sheets be close enough to your keyboard? AFC Eddie Yes, very close, Joyce. ELECTMUSIC (I have the info for CZ hand shaking) AFC Eddie Anything that could edit D-20 could edit D-5. MDW Flyer Thats true Greg, Banks would be one of the better features to have for performance purposes. AFC Eddie SysExGS does banks. AFL JoyceM Several people mention they would like to write a Librarian program but so far silch! MDW, I hope you do - you will get all the support you need here. ELECTMUSIC Not for the CZ AFC Eddie True, Greg. ELECTMUSIC As Eddie mentioned.... Editing could be done at the instrument for now... MDW Flyer 8) Great. I'll post a proposal in the Let's Discuss. Give a mailing address ELECTMUSIC We need to be able to do bulk dumps and.... the files should be in the MIDIEX format!!!! MDW Flyer for the spec sheets, and start putting this new Pascal to work. AFL JoyceM MIDIEX format? MDW Flyer I'm not familiar with MIDIEX, is that an extension of SysEx? ELECTMUSIC Yep, similar to the Midi File Format... except for SysEx info. It allow users to share files across computer platforms!!!! AFC Eddie Once we have that, we can borrow mac and other patches and edit them in the GS. MDW Flyer Haven't seen anything on that, if you could post some info I'll see if that is the common thread needed to make this as universal as possible. ELECTMUSIC Lindsay and myself where able to transfer Mac files for 4 operator FM voices using this format AFC Eddie MDW, count me in as much as possible!!! AFL JoyceM Jyrenac, is there something that we can help you with? ELECTMUSIC The Mac library already has MidiEx and the IBM platform has many SysEx files in this format Jyrenac like, what's a sysex, or a midiex? MDW Flyer Greg, is there some place online that has a text file explaining MIDIEX? ELECTMUSIC (Sorry for being so technical, tonight) AFL JoyceM Jyrenac, you stated that you have MusicStudio and synthLAB - do you like them? ELECTMUSIC Right now, you could check in the Mac Library for the program MidiEx Jyrenac well... i can't really do anything good because i don't have midi.. MDW Flyer Jyrenac, SysEx is short for System Exclusive message, one of the features of MIDI communications between MIDI instruments. Jyrenac i don't mean to be rude to anyone, but i believe that a lot of the music that has been uploaded for our computer... ELECTMUSIC Along with the program is a Doc description from the developer of the program I spoke with him about MidiEx for the GS and he told me it wasn't a big deal AFL JoyceM MDW, we will soon have a SMF folder here - Standard Midi File for all plat-forms, MS-DOS and Mac and GS. Jyrenac, you don't need MIDI to input music into MusicStudio. Jyrenac i know, but it's really obsolete now and it's too weak AFL JoyceM Weak, in what way? Jyrenac Well, for example, the sounds, and the polyphony... ELECTMUSIC MDW, if you are going to pursue this program be sure to look into the Midiex format Jyrenac i think the program that sparked my interest the most has been Soundsmith. I don't think Synthlab has lived up to its potential at all. MDW Flyer Thats great Joyce. Some PC users I know are stymied by ShrinkIt files. Nuzz In what way Jy? AFL JoyceM MDW, these files will not be shrunk, aced or whatever. Jyrenac well, i shouldn't say much because i don't even own MIDI... but i think that if i had it, i would incorporate.. a lot more instruments... and rhythm, too. the songs i've seen for synthlab so far are pretty good. But they could be elaborated on so much... AFC Eddie Jy, you should get MIDI if you can. Sounds like you'd have good ideas. Jyrenac right off the bat, i can tell that a lot of you have the equipment. AFL JoyceM Jy, we have one song that done with synthLAB, without a MIDI keyboard. Jyrenac yeah, i heard it AFL JoyceM Heart and Soul is the name. Nuzz Eddie, thats what I mean by custom Instruments :) Jyrenac i tried to make one too... AFC Eddie LOL! Jyrenac is there any way to do, like, a step recording on it? or chords? Nuzz ElectMusic is very good at changing how instruments sound AFC Eddie Not without MIDI, Jy :( Jyrenac i was just clicking away with the mouse out of time Nuzz (Trying to sucker Greg in to the job) Jyrenac by the way, out of curiosity have we announced the contest winner yet? AFL JoyceM Jy, we will next week...there seems to be a tie... :) ELECTMUSIC Thanks Mike... I did enjoy my attempts at sound editing using Slab, but it takes a real long time.... Jyrenac how many of you guys compose? AFC Eddie Probably most of us. Nuzz Not me FredChopin I compose a little AFC Eddie Nuzz composes great software products. AFL JoyceM MasterTracks is another good program for editing, etc. but MIDI keyboard is needed. Jyrenac are any of you... accomplished professionals? so to speak... ELECTMUSIC Jy, professionals would be using a different computer platform to create music Jyrenac you're probably right... Nuzz I heard that one fella made a copy of a wave file using his own voice to duplicate the instruments. ELECTMUSIC I would say, that some of the music COMPOSED for the GS is professional quality! Nuzz Jy, Electmusic did all the music on a program called ClipTunes ELECTMUSIC I would also say, that some of the music composed on the other platforms might be professional, or might be garbage as well. Its really how the users work with the tools provided by the different platforms AFC Eddie Greg is absolutely right, as usual... ELECTMUSIC (getting off the soapbox, now) Jyrenac i'm not working with my tools (as far as the computer goes) too well... i uploaded ONE song, and it was a piece of crap MDW Flyer At least in the Chicago area, most places cater to the MAC music avenue. AFC Eddie Jy, if you're into music and computers, MIDI is inevitable... What song was that, Jy? Jyrenac it wasn't even a SKELETON of the real song on my V50. It was called strange paradise, and i think it was a fluke AFC Eddie What format was it in? Sounds familiar... Jyrenac well, i'm not sure what you mean by that, but it was for Music Studio AFC Eddie I downloaded it and liked it. Jyrenac you LIKED it?... AFC Eddie Still have it, in fact. AFC Eddie Nice, almost classical flavor, right? Jyrenac yeah, kinda... AFC Eddie It was good. Jyrenac thanx AFC Eddie Do more soon. Jyrenac on... on... MUSIC STUDIO?? (aahh!!). It took me ages. AFC Eddie Of course! Then we can convert it to SynthLAB! Jyrenac you can? i didn't know that AFC Eddie That's the kind of thing you find out by hanging around here! AFL JoyceM :) MDW Flyer Joyce, did you ever get the problem fixed regarding the MIDI driver? Jyrenac you mean, if I make a song on music studio, you can make it sound good? kewl AFL JoyceM MDW, refresh my memory... AFC Eddie No, you'll make it sound good, I'll make it SynthLAB. MDW Flyer Something to do with which driver to use with MasterTracks jr. Jyrenac tell ya what, when i make my next song, i'll e-mail you, ok? AFC Eddie I'd appreciate that, Jy. AFL JoyceM Oh, yes I believe we did. You have to have their MIDI driver also besides Apple's. Jyrenac I gotta go too, I have geometry homework AFC Eddie Bye, Jy! Jyrenac cya AFL JoyceM Well, the witching hour has come...and I have some AFLing to do...etc. MDW....we look forward to working ووووووووووووووووووووand helping you with your endeavor. ELECTMUSIC Don't forget the new midi tool supports SysEx MDW Flyer I've been putting my ideas down on paper for the last two weeks. Should have a good bootstrap design mid june. Tool 35 really consolidated a lot of the MIDI capability of the GS. It will be the pivot point for the librarian. AFC Eddie MDW, We look forward to helping you... AFL JoyceM Great... AFL JoyceM-------------------logoff------------------------