=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG June 5, 1991 10 PM ET Topic: SynthLAB Forum Leader: Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM), Forum Assistant: Gene Koh (AFA Gene) Forum Consultants: Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt (AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS) Copyright (c) 1991 America Online All Rights Reserved =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- AFL JoyceM Speaking of MIDI...I have a question. You say to put the rhythm in first as the first track with MTPro...is that the best and easiest way to then get the rest of the tracks in? AFC Eddie Yes, then all the other tracks can synch to it. AFL JoyceM How do you keep track of the key changes...that is difficult, for me anyway. AFC Eddie You mean changes in key signature? AFL JoyceM Yes. AFC Eddie There are several ways, Joyce. The first is to simply play the piece and record it in real time with all the key changes. Another thing you can do is change the key in certain parts by selecting them and transposing. GlynneT Any original pieces for SynthLAB (not a conversion from another program), performed!? AFC Eddie There are several, Glyyne, but not too many. AFL JoyceM What do you mean by recording in Real Time? GlynneT Most I've dl'ed lately are conversions. So I just quit dl'ing them. Nuzz All the originals are in ClipTunes :) AFL JoyceM Glynne, they are still good tho... AFL JoyceM That is true, Mike. AFC Eddie Sing, Sing, Sing is not a conversion, neither is Romance In C. AFL JoyceM What about Bridge Over Troubled Waters...that is GOOD! AFC Eddie Joyce, I mean just playing the piece into MTPro as you normally would, with the key changes built in. GlynneT I don't think so...but then again I expect more I guess. :) ELECTMUSIC Glynne. not sure what you mean by conversions... or do you mean arrangements? GlynneT What are ClipTunes ? AFC Eddie GA, Nuzz! GlynneT Something converted from another program (ported over to SL). I'd like to see more preformed music, not keyed in music. It does not have to be original work. Just PLAYED. Real time like... Nuzz Cliptunes are short pieces to use within HCGS and Hyperstudio and includes xcmd for you to play them when and where you want AFC Eddie But Glynne, even the conversions were played. Just in a different program, like Diversitune or Musicstudio. ELECTMUSIC Eddie, unless they are converted from MStudio, in which case they are moused in AFC Eddie Yes, Greg, but some might have been played there too. GlynneT VERY FEW Diversi-Tune pieces are played pieces! Watch the velocity display. Nuzz Joyce, Shadow 1100 is Marty Steinberg of Triad Venture GlynneT If all the keys are pressed at the same pressure then it was probably a convert itself. AFC Eddie Then how would they be entered, Glynne? GlynneT From the Mac or something else. AFC Eddie If they were played on a keyboard without velocity sensitivity, that would be the result. ELECTMUSIC I am planning to upload some of my students files this weekend..... some for MStudio and some for MTPro GlynneT Eddie: By playing them as in 8 fingers, 2 thumbs. Not like Music Studio where notes are dropped onto the screen. Get it? AFL JoyceM Isn't it difficult to convert DiversiTune songs to synthLAB? AFC Eddie No, Joyce, easy with a sequencer. ELECTMUSIC I agree with Eddie most of the DTunes songs where preformed with non velocity keyboards AFA Gene And it'll be even easier when Music Modifier is finished! :) (I know you were just waiting for someone to say that :) Nuzz OK, whats Music Modifier AFL JoyceM :) GlynneT Hmmmm? I think many of them were Mac converts. Note how each finger key is on a different channel too. AFA Gene SL-DT-MIDI File format convertor, Mike. AFC Eddie How can a mac file be converted to Diversitune? Nuzz Cool, who's doing it AFA Gene no direct method, ed AFL JoyceM Also a number of DT songs from Bill Basham are live recordings. GlynneT Connect the two via Midi. AFL JoyceM Music Modifier is being done by whom, Gene? AFA Gene A fellow named Mark Jackson (Mark TMM), Mike. GlynneT Sure the B. Basham were live recordings. Those are the few that are. Nuzz for softdisk, or shareware, or what? ELECTMUSIC Gene... anything new for converting MStudio to SLab? AFA Gene Freeware at this point, cuz the interface is pitiful. There were a number of bugs the latest version, like it dumps everything onto one SL track, but it has potential. AFL JoyceM Glynne, are you a musician? GlynneT I was amazed that SL supports pitch bend! I wish! AFA Gene Again, nothing direct with MS-SL either (by direct I mean direct disk file conversion). GlynneT Nope. Know a few. I understand (I think) much of computer interfacing for music production though can't perform it. AFL JoyceM Gene, will Music Modifier eventually be put in our library for us to test? or play with? AFA Gene Not in it's current version, but when Mark uploads v3.0 it'll be out ASAP. ELECTMUSIC Gene... is SoftDisk supporting SLab at this point? AFA Gene well, there's a program sitting there in Shreveport, and it plays SL and MS, but it has no bells and whistles yet and I'm working on them to put the cool stuff in! GlynneT Anyone working on a full fledge application to use the MidiSynth tool? GlynneT SL is nice but will not cut it for professionals. AFA Gene With some good instruments, tho, it can be pretty powerful. AFC Eddie We're waiting for something like that to come along, Glynne! ELECTMUSIC What ever happen to the folder MWFlyer was going to start on SysEx using tool35 AFA Gene what does sysex have to do with tool035, tho? ELECTMUSIC The tool supports SysEx AFL JoyceM Wasn't he (MDWFlyer) going to start a folder on what we wanted to see in a Librarian program? ELECTMUSIC Yes! AFL JoyceM We just might have to remind him. His name is Mick Petrie ELECTMUSIC Gene... does that make sense to you... ie SysEx and the Tool35 AFL JoyceM Glynne, what type of music do you want to see in our library? AFA Gene kinda, greg... totally didn't know about sysex support in tool035, so you mean GlynneT Kind? Hmmm? Well, I posted (I think yesterday) that I'd like to see some contemporary Christian music. Also would like to see some good classical pieces. Jazz would also work well synthesized. AFA Gene that there is a new tool call specifically for sysex msgs? ELECTMUSIC I assume (Mike correct me , here) that a program could open the tool up and then have SysEx messages take full advantage of ALL of the features of the GS including memory, and the GUI... etc. GlynneT SysEx is something I lack knowledge of in MIDI. Care to expand? ELECTMUSIC Lindsay had to code the features of SysExGS and was limited by what the old midi tool would support GlynneT I think it is a way to capture system specific MIDI commands to store and send later. AFC Eddie that's basically, it, Glynne. Nuzz Sysex is supported in tool 35 through the use of callbacks IE, not directly through tool calls. GlynneT Then I guess I don't lack that knowledge. :) Nuzz You can send sysex message out to the midi port directly but incoming sysex is by callbacks ELECTMUSIC Mike could you explain that to us? Nuzz basiclly it works like this: If you are playing a sequence, tool 35 handles all the playing of notes volume changes etc, but when it sees a sysex message, it does nothing immediatly, but if you told the tool to alert you when it receives a sysex message, it will call you back while the song is still playing to tell you that it received a message. What you do with the message is then up to you (the programmer) thats about it. ELECTMUSIC So.. it will recognize the message, but offers nothing in the way of handling the data. AFC Eddie Thanks, Mike! Nuzz correct Greg AFA Gene Oh! So it's like the IIgs has its own sysex commands now...cool! ELECTMUSIC Ohhh... thats pretty limited AFA Gene but it sounds like it could come in VERY handy in any sort of application that music is coordinated with... such as a Jukebox, maybe? :) Nuzz Limited, maybe, more work for the programmer, definitly AFC Eddie Wonder if that's too limited to allow development of a workable editor... AFL JoyceM So we need a program to handle that data and do with it what we want? Nuzz Yes Joyce but it will have to application specific ELECTMUSIC I thought the tool would do more of the handling The Tool definitely handles the standard Midi data better# AFA Gene that reminds me: Joyce, any news on System 6.0 AFL JoyceM BTW, in Productivity there are several SL Hypercard applications that we will soon get in our library. AFL JoyceM No, Gene...but supposedly to be shown at Kansas Fest in July. AFC Eddie I DL's the French jukebox. Quite nice for SL. Nuzz The Midisynth callbacks are: Nuzz EndSeq Nuzz UserMeter Nuzz Mstart,Mstop Nuzz PacketIn Nuzz Seqevent Nuzz Sysex Nuzz Packet Out Nuzz Pgmchange Nuzz and Smarker AFL JoyceM Smarker?...sorry it jolted my funny bone :) Nuzz Yes Eddie, that French stack is excellent ELECTMUSIC Agreed, Eddie... very nice AFA Gene Does it work on 1.25 meg? ELECTMUSIC Gene... you should check that stack out AFA Gene the french stack was HCGS, right? Nuzz Did you notice that he had a custom Xcmd to change the volume? AFL JoyceM I have it, but it is still packed - haven't had time to unpack it yet! Nuzz Yes Gene HCGS ELECTMUSIC (I don't think anything new works on 1.25 meg) :) AFL JoyceM Gene needs more memory :) AFA Gene :( then i can't use it cuz i gots only 1.25 AFL JoyceM our hour is about up......and thanks to Mike and the rest of us for making this another informative night.