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APPLE II MUSIC & SOUND FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
JUNE 19, 1991  10 PM  ET
Topic:  MIDI
Forum Leader:  Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM),
Forum Assistant:  Gene Koh (AFA Gene)
Forum Consultants:  Greg Dib (ELECTMUSIC), Ed Rosenblatt
(AFC Eddie), Lindsay Hough (LindsayGS)
Copyright (c) 1991 America Online
All Rights Reserved
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AFL JoyceM Gene, Marty just uploaded to our New Files area
                    two files.  One being the Big Red MIDIsynth Jukebox file,
                    that we get to keep and then move to StudioWare when the
                    time is right.  The other file, SynthLab Player 1.01 for
                    HCGS, he will want moved to his library in about a month, he
                    will let us know when.

AFC Eddie  Excellent!

AFL Marty  They've both been verified.  You can release them
                   whenever you want.

AFA Gene   I'll release 'em right now, then! :) AFL JoyceM
                  what library number.

AFL JoyceM Thanks, Marty :)

AFA Gene   thanx (posting in ATB forum conference folder
                  right now)

AFL Marty  I think we need to consider linking HCGS in some
                   fashion.

AFL JoyceM I agree, Marty....as we will be getting more,
                    bigger and combined files for HCGS. I am sure Tim would be
                    in agreement.

AFL Marty  I'll work up a proposal and share it with you
                   when I think I've covered all the bases.

AFL JoyceM Marty, appreciate that.

AFL Marty  I have something in mind that I think will work
                   well.

Nuzz       I'm gonna need some help with  SL Time Stamps, I
               hope you guya are up on that

AFL JoyceM SL Time Stamps...go for it, Mike.

AFL JoyceM MIke, any more work on the MIDideas digi card and
                    your program?

Nuzz       Not yet Joyce. I haven't spoken to Joey yet

AFL JoyceM I would think so, Gene....but.... I still have
                    the file, Mike...will keep it until you tell me to either
                    send it to Joey or delete it.

Nuzz       I told Joey that if he wanted the file, you have
               it

AFL JoyceM So, Mike...you wanted to know something about SL
                    Time Stamping?  I know a lot about time stamping, but not
                    for SL :)

AFA Gene   LOL Joyce! :)

Nuzz       Well Joyce, I've been hacking at a sequence
               editor

AFL JoyceM YEA!!!!!

AFC Eddie  Great!

Nuzz       It really doesn't do any editing as of yet, Just
               shows all the info

AFC Eddie  That's more than we've got.

Nuzz       and I have to figure out the time stamp baloney

AFL JoyceM I wonder if Lindsay, or even Parik,  would be
                    able to help you?

AFC Eddie  Bet he would.

AFC Eddie  We're discussing MIDI tonite.

Nuzz       Not being a musician or Music literate hurts in
               this case

Topino     but Nuzz... writting nifty XCMD's that allows for
                 cool music helps

AFL JoyceM Hi, Bill, we are discussing MIDI and anything
                    else you would like to discuss in the music/sound area :)

AFC Eddie  True!

Nuzz       I can display all the info, But I haven't looked
               that hard at the time stamps

Nuzz       Thanks Topino. I like them :)

AFC Eddie  MIDI is what's happening, Teach!

Nuzz       I do know that what you see in SL and what the
               actual Seq Item contains is different re Time stamps

AFL JoyceM Mike, if you need Lindsay's phone number, I can
                    E-mail it to you.

Nuzz       BTW, did you notice SL never retains your
               Recording track

AFC Eddie  Yes, Mike, that's true.

DanW190    Anyone know how to get a MIDI song (from an
                  MT-32) to convert via MidiMate?  I always get an unclaimed
                  byte error...

AFL JoyceM Didn't know that, Mike.

Nuzz       It's there in the seq, but the SL app never
               pullls it out

AFC Eddie  Dan, the song you're trying to convert may
                  contain Program Changes or Controller Messages. You must
                  clear them before using Midimate.

Nuzz       My app does, and it shows tracks 9-16

DanW190    And how does one strip data via MasterTracks Jr?

AFL JoyceM Harold, how is that gizmo that you were working
                    on going (can't remember its name)?

AFC Eddie  It's not stripping data, that's something else.

AFC Harold Joyce..you mean my 128K DOC ram setup? I dropped
                    it due to ROM 03 incompat. :(

AFC Eddie  Unfortunately, MTJr. Can't really deal with
                  Program Changes.

AFL JoyceM Oh, sorry to hear that, Harold.

DanW190    Eddie- MTJr will load the song, and play the
                  song.. it just won't convert the song to SL via midimate..

AFC Eddie  Dan, That's because the file needs changes that
                  Jr can't do to it, only Pro.

Bill234    Im looking for some advice.....

DanW190    Ahh.  Gulp... :)

AFC Harold Dan...I'm not here to talk hardware :) :)
                   (standard disclaimer :)

AFL JoyceM Speaking of MasterTracks...you all know they have
                    discontinued both the Pro and Jr versions for the GS.  I am
                    trying to get some 'free ' copies!

Bill234    about a year ago I purchased a synth (Ensoniq
                 VFX) and am now in the market for

Bill234    asome sequencing software....in fact,  was just
                  going to ask about Master trax Pro or other sequencers for
                  Apple II gs.

AFC Eddie  Bill, not familiar with your synth, is it
                  multi-timbral?

Bill234    Yes, multitimbral

AFC Eddie  Then mastertracks Pro is the best there is in
                  sequencing for the GS.

DanW190    Do the latest versions of MTJr support GS/OS :)

AFC Eddie  Yes, Dan.

AFL JoyceM Yes, Dan.

DanW190    Which version is that?

AFL JoyceM Dan, you can still buy the product direct for
                    about $379 :(

AFC Eddie  not sure what the latest is for Jr, but Pro is
                  1.04.

DanW190    It takes a "Pro" to afford it :P

Bill234    So, you mean Id better buy it quick...its been
                 discontinued? (MTPro)

AFL JoyceM True, Dan.  They would sell me 5 for $100 each
                    and give me the 6th free, I didn't bite!

Nuzz       Is that the most expensive GS software

Topino     I have a ? for you SL users... how can I learn to
                 use it?!

AFC Eddie  Play with it, Topino!  Or get the docs from APDA.

AFL JoyceM Topino, I will be giving away a complete SL
ووووووووووووووووووووpackage next week at our Trivia  Contest.

Topino     I know how to do the basic stuff... but that's
                 it.  I'd like to write music!

AFC Eddie  Topino, do you have MIDI?

AFL JoyceM GMTA, Eddie :)

AFC Eddie  If not, then SL may not be the best program for
                  creating music.

AFL JoyceM Topini, do you have a MIDI keyboard?

Topino     I don't have a MIDI keyboard, but I do have a
                 regular one... :(

AFC Eddie  Topino, to create music on your computer without
                  MIDI, you should think about Musicstudio, if you can find
                  it!

AFA Gene   Unfortunately, you'll pretty much need a MIDI
                  keyboard to create anything complex with SynthLAB.

AFL JoyceM Well, Topino, then I guess MusicStudio is best
                    for you too, but again, that program has been discontinued
                    and very difficult to find. I will also be giving that
                    program away next week at our Trivia Contest.  I do have a
                    complete package.

Topino     what are you giving away THIS week Joyce?

AFC Eddie  Great advice, Topino!

Bill234    Joyce, did I hear you say before that
                  Mastertracks Pro for GS had been discontinued?

Topino     LOL!

AFL JoyceM Free information and help!

AFA Gene   when is kfest, btw?

Topino     16-21st!

AFL JoyceM Yes, Bill.

Topino     I hope you'll all be there!

Bill234    But is it still available anywhere?

AFL JoyceM Bill, MasterTracks Pro is available from PassPort
                    Designs, direct.  Not sure if any of the mail order houses
                    have any.

Bill234    ok, thanks

AFC Eddie  There's a place called Sound Management in Mass.
                  that still has it.

Bill234    thanks, eddie, ...yes, Ive seen their ad

AFC Eddie  Need their address?

Bill234    Are they the place in Peabody?

Topino     Fred, does the Chopin in your screename suggest
                music expertise?

AFC Eddie  yes.

Bill234    (Im in MA also)

DYA Jim1   Hey everyone, we (DYA) have finished our ASIF
                  instrument disk!!!!!!

AFC Eddie  Tell us about it, Jim!

Topino     Alright Jim!

DYA Jim1   Look for it in about a day in our Direct Connect
                  software library. Ok.. details :)   Ok, it's got about 140
                  new ASIF instruments that will work great with SoundSmith
                  (the exact number I can't seem to find right now :)   All
                  NEW instruments from personal samples.

AFL Marty  These are all original instruments, aren't they?

DYA Jim1   Yes.

AFC Eddie  Great!

AFL Marty  How'd you make them?

AFA Gene   140 instruments on one disk?

DYA Jim1   It is in its second resampling, because the
                  instruments originally in the first sampling were not
                  perfectly on key.

AFC SteveB Full disk! :)

DYA Jim1   Yes, Gene.

DYA Jim1   Now, they are in better tune than FUNs!

AFA Gene   What kind of instruments?

DYA Jim1   We have taken care that all the instruments will
                  sound good with each other, and with existing instruments if
                  the existing ones are on key too.  Several different
ووووووووووووووووووcategories, from new percussion, to woodwinds, to orchestra
                  sounds, to synth stuff, to miscellaneous "sampled" sounds.

AFC Eddie  Tell us again where to find this disk, Jim.

DYA Jim1   It should be available in our DC's software
                  library area by tomorrow We are planning to upload it in
                  several different forms:  as a shrunk disk (about 600k!),
                  and by category We've been working on this for a while now
                   :)

AFC Eddie  Thanks, Jim!

Nuzz       Hey Steve, maybe we should include an "Import
               ASIF Instrument" in that stack

DYA Jim1   I think you'll all like it.

Topino     Shareware?

DYA Jim1   Freeware.

Topino     WOW!

DYA Jim1   A lot of the samples are from music (a lot of
                  stuff from the Art of Noise!) and from DX7 and D70
                  synthesizers.

AFC SteveB Sounds great Mike! :)

Topino     Just being a nice guy, ey Jim? :)

AFC Eddie  Jim, can you describe your sampling method
                  briefly?

DYA Jim1   oh, whoops; I mean 117 instruments total, 48 of
                  which are percussion

AFL JoyceM Fantastic.

DYA Jim1   Well, Matt did most of the sampling with is Audio
                  Animator.

AFL Marty  Not bad Jim... and less than a week late.  Good
                   job!

Nuzz       Thats a lot of instruments

DYA Jim1   I don't know the exact frequencies, BUT we did
ووووووووووووووو   take great care to sample them on key.

AFC Eddie  You didn't have any noise problems?

DYA Jim1   That took a while to figure out.  Not to my
                  knowledge, Eddie.  We would have released the disk about 4-6
                  months ago, but we didn't have them tuned that well at that
                  time.

Topino     these DYA boys know their stuff!

AFC Eddie  That's a monumental task, and a real
                  contribution.

DYA Jim1   Thanks :)

AFA Gene   Can you tell us which D-70 sounds you sampled?

AFC Eddie  Now you can go to work on some new Wavebanks for
                  Midisynth!

DYA Jim1   Well, I gave Matt a tape of practically
                  everything, but the ones we used the most turned out to be a
                  lot of the percussion sounds, the strings, and a lot of
ووووووووووووووووووdifferent things from pipes to bells to organs to brass to
                  guitars to the gentle flowing sound of Vox's to Pads, to a
                  few FX sounds too.. Practically everything :)

AFL JoyceM Ah, finally one can play the classics with SS :)

AFA Gene   sounds great, jim :)

AFC Eddie  Yes, Joyce, if we want to compose them!

DYA Jim1   I made a tape for Matt of all the instruments
                  playing a G#4 (I believe that was it :) and he sampled most
                  of them. I sampled a few of the percussion, like the OrchHit
                  and the Kick sounds :)

AFC Eddie  Gee, now if SS will only support MIDI.....

DYA Jim1   I agree, Eddie.

AFA Gene   nice!

DYA Jim1   We would like to do MIDISynth banks too, but
                  there is no strong MIDISynth bank librarian available.

AFA Gene   If ss supported midi, midisynth would be dead.

AFL JoyceM Eddie, supposedly there is a MIDI version in
                    beta, so I am told.

DYA Jim1   (Sure, SyntheCreate is nice, but it isn't
                  powerful enough)  Yeah Gene..

AFC Eddie  I've heard that too, Joyce, but will believe it
                  when I see it.   Or hear it.

AFL JoyceM Jim, am most anxious to get your
                    disk(s)...thanks.

DYA Jim1   However, most of the majority of the sounds on
                  the disk are percussion, strings, keyboard misc, and sampled
                  FX.  In the future we might release a sequel with more wind
                  instruments. (Besides, I finally saved up enough $$ to order
                  a couple extra ROM instrument cards today. :)

AFC Eddie  Wouldn't it be great if we had something to
                  convert ASIF to Midisynth waves?

AFL Marty  Not powerful enough?

AFL JoyceM What keyboard do you have, Jim?

DYA Jim1   I was lucky enough to finally save enough and
                  convince my parents enough to trade up from a Casio HT-700
                  to a Roland D-70 last Christmas :)  Yeah, that would be
                  great Eddie.

AFC Eddie  Nice board, Jim!

DYA Jim1   What are you referring to, Marty?  Yeah, I like
                  it a LOT :) a big step up

AFL Marty  You said Synth Create wasn't powerful enough.

DYA Jim1   (I've taken piano lessions for 8 years :)

AFL JoyceM See, my D-5 is already outdated!

AFL Marty  What do you need to do that it doesn't do?

DYA Jim1   You can't load existing waves and edit them. You
                  can't delete instruments from waves, you can't add
                  instruments to

AFC Eddie  No, Joyce, there's lots of life in your D-5!

DYA Jim1   existing waves, you can't copy instruments
                  between waves. The D-5 is still popular :)

AFL Marty  Is there no other program that will do this?

DYA Jim1   Nope :(

AFC Eddie  No, Marty.

DYA Jim1   I wish Apple would release the program they used
                  for it. (Parik addresses these faults too in his
                  documentation, if I remember right)

AFA Gene   As long as the MT-32 remains the mainstay of
                  MS-DOS users, the D-5 will be a viable instrument.

AFL JoyceM Wouldn't that be nice :)

DYA Jim1   It also would be great if the program allowed
                  editing and tweaking of looped instruments.

AFL Marty  You could add those things to your list of
                   projects.

DYA Jim1   I have lots of fun with my D70 though :)  I'm
                  lucky :)

AFL Marty  Work on it in your spare time (har har)

DYA Jim1   (sorry to take the conversation away from MIDI :)

AFC Eddie  MIDI isn't complaining, Jim!

AFL JoyceM Not a problem, Jim....your info was/is very
                    important.  thanks.

AFA Gene   btw, all marty's stuff was released 1/2 hour
                  ago... so pick up the big reg red jukebox and the midi synth
                  player!  :)

AFC Harold (still here, resiting temptation to talk about
                    seq. editor I'm working on :)

AFL JoyceM Thanks, Gene

AFC Eddie  Stop resisting, Harold.

AFL JoyceM Quit resisting, Harold and talk about it.

AFC Harold Well....it is all a kludge, breaks all kinds of
                   rules, and is nowhere near ready for release. (and I will
                   not write a nice user interface for it...) I will be looking
                   for others to help with cleaning it up (one I have
                   everything worked out :)

AFL JoyceM Why won't you write a nice user interface,
                    Harold?

AFL Marty  Why not?

AFC Harold I don't like playing with tools....so it only has
                    a text interface

AFL JoyceM I could live with that :)

AFC Harold (and is a P-8 application at this point)

AFC Eddie  What kind of sequences?

DYA Jim1   What I find most restricting about MIDISynth is
                  it's limiting 7 voice polyphony.  Press the hold pedal and
                  half your voices are gone

AFC Harold Kinda like AW 2.x....it just grabs memory w/o
                   using the memory manager.

AFC Eddie  Yes, I've noticed that too, Jim.

Nuzz       What limitations

DYA Jim1   I hate that Eddie. 7 voice polyphony

AFC Eddie  Not enough voices, Nuzz.

DYA Jim1   press sustain and half your voices are gone. it
                  makes, IMHO, song inputting a pain unless you forget sustain

AFL JoyceM Don't press Sustain, then :)

DYA Jim1   and tie all the notes manually (ouch!)

AFC Harold ACK!

Nuzz       Thats why need better software Jim

DYA Jim1   Another thing I dislike:  notes below the second
                  C below middle C usually come out as CLICKS

Nuzz       The tool part of it has a pretty cool algrithim
               for stealing voices

DYA Jim1   it has no low notes :(

AFC Eddie  You're right again, Jim.  That's very annoying.

DYA Jim1   And the C that is 2 below middle C is a repeat of
                  the C that is one below :(

AFL JoyceM I have even noticed that.

DYA Jim1   Those are the two main reasons I actually do more
                  free form work with DiversiTune (ack! but I love it's 32
                  voice polyphony) than MIDISynth at this time.

AFL JoyceM Well, guys...it is getting late and this was a
                    GREAT chat. Thanks, Jim for your information, etc.

AFC Harold Hmmm...wrong file name :(

AFL JoyceM Thanks to all of you for participation, and don't
                    forget our infamous Trivia Contest next week.

DYA Jim1   Glad to have shared it.  Thanks Joyce! :)

Nuzz       Harold, how are you dealing with the Time stamps
               in your editor?

AFL JoyceM Great prizes too besides the fun ... and
                    challenge :)

AFC Harold Mike..how do you mean "How am I dealing
                    with...."? All I do is display the sequence (with stamping)
                    and allow (with arrow keys) to shift the time stamp. (you
                    know, highlight a note, and then you can inc/dec the stamp

AFC Harold (hopefully in the finished version you'll be able
                   to pick a note(s) with the mouse and drag them to where you
                    want them)

Nuzz       Oh, I see, and you do that for the three stamps

AFC Harold I do it for note on, and note off. (also for
                    command packets)

AFC Harold This is a kludge (as I said) at this time, it
                    needs MUCH work still :) :)

Nuzz       Is there a Music Note Font around anywhere?

Nuzz       Or maybe a set of Icons?

DYA Jim1   Sonata Postscript :) only for M*cs tho :(

AFC Harold I think there is a note font...yup! (maybe it can
                    be ported??)

AFL Marty  Yes Mike. It's called "Music".

DYA Jim1   Yeah, maybe someone can port a bitmapped version
                  of Sonata to the GS.

AFL JoyceM Mike, I believe that someone uploaded a font for
                    MusicWriter...not sure it would work with other programs
                    tho.

DYA Jim1   If you really want it, that is :)

Nuzz       I'm having a difficult time deciding how to
               display the sequence

AFL Marty  Sonata is also online.

DYA Jim1   is it?  Cool; I'll have to check it out :)

AFL Marty  I don't know if it's a $C8 font though.

AFC Harold even if it isn't, converting it has got to be
                    easier than creating one

AFC Harold from scratch :)

AFL Marty  I see 5 font families for music.... Music, Music
                   #1, Music #2, Music 1, Music 2

Nuzz       I'll have to check those out

AFL Marty  Available in APR/DTP Fonts/K-O

Bill234    I use a font called "Music" that I downloaded a
                  couple years ago....

Nuzz       what does it have in it Bill

Bill234    use it along with AWGS to print out music
                  examples (Im a college music teacher)

Nuzz       I mean do the characters represent notes

Bill234    However this particular font will only print out
                  single melody lines... no chords, i.e. no stacking of notes

Bill234    Yes, for example, if you type an "A" you get a
                  whole note, A above middle C

AFL JoyceM Thanks, Guys...I have to go...and so the...

AFL JoyceM ______-----------log off------------