Apple II Music & Sound Conference
February 21, 1990  10:00 ET
Subject:   The new MIDI/synth/sequencer tool for the GS
Guest:     Mark Cecys, Sound Engineer for Apple Computer
Forum Leader:  Tim Barwick (AFL TimB)

AFL TimB   Welcome to the weekly convergence of the Apple II
           Music and Sound Forum.  I have had a couple of
           amazing events happen to me over the last week
           and I'm afraid I'm gonna make you listen to both
           of them!   First on Friday I received the most
           recent version of Soundsmith (0.9 to be exact).
           It has everything promised (well most of it) but
           as I left for NY State this weekend I didn't have
           much time to really check it out.  On Monday,
           when I returned home I found a really nice
           package on my doorstep.  Yup, Apple's highly
           touted MIDI Synth tool was there.  What can I
           say.  The sound is breathtaking!

AFL TimB   However, tonight's chat is a PROTOCOL one. SO
           give us a ? for a question and a ! for a comment
           and good ole' Gene will keep track on y'all.
           Without further adieu let me introduce Mark Cecys
           from Apple.  Mark, do you have a few word about
           the tool before we get to the questions?

M Cecys    MIDI Synth is Apple's new MIDI/Synth/Sequencer
           tool for the GS.

LindsayGS  Mark - does the new set include upgrades in
           system tools like MIDI?

M Cecys    It's a new MIDI interface not based on MIDI
           Tools.  It's integrated into one tool to work
           well with the synth and seq.

A GibberFC Any window on a shipping date or when I can get
           my hot little hands on it?  How is the tool
           accessed by programs already out there?

M Cecys    No real date yet. My guess is within a month at
           APDA. It's a brand new tool, it's not compatible
           with existing Tools.

Rogue Sys  1)  number of instruments?  2) overhead it takes?
           3) and how much ram/disk space does it take?  4)
           any new features in the instrument designer/main
           program?

M Cecys    It works on banks of 16 instruments. Typical
           overhead is about 30% cpu time.

Rogue Sys  No, how many instruments are included [ie,
           soundsmith has 50+ total].

M Cecys    Takes about 25K disk space. It has a basically
           new instrument record.

AFL TimB   Mark, isn't the instrument designer more like a
           synth in that you use sliders to change the
           sound?  Thereby being able to created as many
           synthesized sounds as you can imagine?

M Cecys    We plan on releasing many banks of instruments
           with the package to get you started.  I should
           point out that we are releasing 'synthLAB', an
           application to design your instruments.

AFL TimB   Don't sell SynthLAB short Mark, it's a LOT more
           than just an instrument designer.

BostnFrank On a ROM 1 gs, GSOS 5.02, 1.7 meg, what do I need
           to get/do to run this?

M Cecys    Just boot the disk, you're there. 1 meg system,
           5.0x GSOS is all you need.

AFL TimB   Frank: Think Diversi-tune!  You can play songs
           back without MIDI but (currently) you can't enter
           any music without MIDI.  But the sound is MUCH
           better than DTUNE.

AFC JoyceM How would I purchase this from APDA?  And, what
           can it do for me, as I am just a typical IIGS
           user.

M Cecys    You need to be an APDA member to buy it. Hook up
           a MIDI keyboard and play your GS as a real synth.

AFL TimB   It might (MIGHT) also be available online too.

AFC JoyceM So a non-member of APDA won't be able to get it?

M Cecys    Eventually it will be on the GS system disk.

DangardAce 1) Will the new tool play in TRUE stereo (IE some
           instruments on left channel); 2) I know it's not
           your area, but how does Apple intend to market
           the new tools?  Will it take a booth at NAMM to
           tout it or walk into an empty bus station, whip
           it out from under a coat, yell HERE IT IS! and
           slink away Passport is one of the WORST MIDI
           developers around, please pick another! and 3)
           how many tracks will the sequencer tool be?

M Cecys    Each instrument can be assign to either stereo
           channel.  2) It's available to anyone interested
           thru APDA and we'll be seeding it to some
           developers, and 3) the sequencer supports 16
           tracks.

DangardAce Please don't seed it to Passport!  They messed up
           Master Tracks Pro IV badly!

RickR31    From what you describe, does this tool allow you
           to play your GS as a synth, record as a
           sequencer, and then use the sequence in your
           programs?   Also, just curious, why the delay
           from July in Kansas City to February on Tim's
           doorstep?

M Cecys    Rick. That's right.  Remember there's the tool
           that programmers use and then there's 'synthLAB'
           that any GS owner can use.  Hey, I can only
           control the 'code' part.

AFL TimB   It's tough to describe this but I'll try.  As a
           non-programmer I don't know a tool from a hole in
           the wall.  The MIDI Synth Tool is the operating
           system part of this project.  However what I can
           appreciate is the SynthLAB that comes with the
           package.  This is an almost fully functioning
           Sequencer/sound designer/GS sound player.  You
           can record (easily I might mention) and play back
           with either the GS and/or a MIDI synth.  You can
           mold the sounds to your needs.

M Cecys    Thanks Tim. You want a sales job at Apple? :)

AFA Bruce  Mark, from the Musician Trade Magazine's
           perspective, the GS has long been considered a
           joke.  With the new tools, have you gotten any
           feedback from, say companies that have Mac
           software available.  Have they shown any interest
           in developing for the GS with these tools?

M Cecys    I don't know of any computer that can come even
           close to the sounds of MIDI synth.  All the other
           computers in the market are only MIDI
controllers.
           Hopefully GS developers will change this on the
           GS. with MIDI Synth, the GS can be a real "pro"
           sequencer. Along with it's powerful synth
           capabilities.

AFA Gene   Good point, Mark.

LindsayGS  Can new programs use it like a new midi tool? -
           is the midi buffer > 32K?, also will the tools
           eventually get into GSOS so users have them?

M Cecys    Lindsay. Yes you can use each part (synth, seq,
           MIDI) alone.  No limit on the buffer size.
           Lindsay, it will be on future system disks.

LindsayGS  Fantastic!

A GibberFC How do you think that Apple is going to over come
           the "Toy Image" of the //gs?

M Cecys    I think MIDI Synth and synthLAB should help.

Foosilier  Mark, just a quick note of thanks from this here
           programmer.  The time and effort you have
           obviously spent on this new tool is going to go a
           long way in helping us develop better programs.
           Thanks.

M Cecys    Thanks, hope you can use it.

JSchober   All I want (need) from a MIDI system is a decent
           multi-track sequencer and the ability to convert
           keyboarded music to sheet music.  There's no way
           to do that in a single application on the GS at
           this time.  I'm not surprised that the
           professional mags sneer at the GS, just on that
           basis.

M Cecys    It's up to developers to do that.  MIDI Synth
           helps because most of the 'real' sequencer
           functions have been already done for them.
           hopefully something good will come of it.

ELECTMUSIC 1) File Formats- do you see these tools helping
           to standardize formats for sound and sequencer
           files, and 2) is the waveform buffer still
           limited to 64k?

M Cecys    SynthLAB has file formats for both sounds and
           sequences.  Hopefully MIDI synth apps will
           support both of them.  64k is the DOC ram size.
           You loose performance if you start swapping wave
           memory.  But you really can do a lot with 64K
           wave memory.

The Ronz   1] Are the sound files from Ensoniq or did you
           (Apple) create them??  2] When can we expect to
           see System 6.0 for the GS (as mentioned in
           MacWeek)?  3] Will you release your music demos
           to the public (via America Online)?  (in question
           1 I meant instrument files)

M Cecys    Ronz. The waves and instruments are from Apple.
           Sorry, I can't comment on "6.0".  3) We are
           working on putting the files online. Nothing
           decided yet.

AFL TimB   Ron: I can understand why people think these are
           demo's but take my word for it, SynthLAB (the
           application) is NO demo! :))

APeach     What makes it different from earlier 'attempts'
           at MIDI interfacing?   What is the difference
           between what you have done and what was done
           before?

M Cecys    Large question! please be more specific.

APeach     What is so different about what you have done, I
           mean in the sense that this new 'tool' is such an
           improvement.

M Cecys    It sounds better, easier and more powerful
           programmers interface.

AFL TimB   It's a more complete, better designed and far
           better sounding version of several of the old
           tools.

APeach     I was wondering if you could compare it to
           something we know  such as DiversiTune.

AFL TimB   (Peach: All Dtune's features and more.  Better
           sounding, instrument design, etc).

A GibberFC You mentioned that Developers are going to have
to
           make the //gs accepted in the music world, but
           with the amount of Non-development on the //gs
           will Apple send out Evangelists to spur
           development?  or will Apple just sit back and see
           what happens?  Frankly, Apple has a lot of ground
           to cover because of the rumors of Demise of the
           //gs and the // line as a whole has the Major
           software makers are "Rethinking"  apple //gs
           Development and right now the future doesn't look
           pretty.

M Cecys    The instruments sound cleaner and are more
           interesting.

AFL TimB   (BTW Mark, Gibber is of 'them'... an Apple
           dealer)

M Cecys    That's out of my area. sorry.

AFL TimB   Gibber, maybe the Developers Association can help
           get Apple Marketing off their rear ends on the
           Apple II.

PGauthier  Can you get a bit more specific about sound and
           sequence formats?   Do you use ASIF for sounds
           and straight MIDI data for sequences or are you
           using the sequence format   used in the old
           Sequencer toolset?  And are the underlying sounds
           digitized from real sounds or have they been
           synthesized mathematically?

M Cecys    Since the voice architecture is new, I can't use
           ASIF.  The seq format is basically MIDI messages
           with time-stamps.  The instruments are a combo of
           both, sort of like the D-50, sq-80, M1 .etc
           method.

PGauthier  Is there a major difference between your new
           sound files and the files used in, say, Music
           Studio (the wavebank files)?  Ok, thanks. Looking
           forward to seeing the tools.

M Cecys    The instrument files are a bank of 16 instruments
           with a separate wave file.

AFC DaveS  In the previous Music Tools chat you gave, you
           mentioned that the instruments were constructed
           of 4 oscillators/voice...has this changed?  There
           are actually 16 instruments constructed from
           "partials" in a wave table now?

M Cecys    Dave. yes 4 oscillators per voice. I didn't
           understand the 2nd part.

AFC DaveS  Never mind...I think you answered it in your
           response to Paul's question.  Thanks!

DangardAce 1) Are there any printing capabilities in the new
           tool that will be provided?  2) Will it NOW be
           possible for developers to add SMPTE/SYNC support
           for their MIDI programs?  TRUE SMPTE?

M Cecys    I don't follow the printing question.  The tool
           supports MIDI sync.

APeach     What's SMPTE?

AFA Gene   SMPTE: Allows synchronization with movie scenes,
           etc.

DangardAce Clarification- will the development system
           provided allow you to print out scores and
           sequences?

M Cecys    Sure, it's up to the app to do the printing.

DangardAce Call me dumb, but does the 64K limit mean that no
           instrument can realistically be larger than 16K,
           which doesn't sound like a good quality sample to
           me?

AFL TimB   DangarAce: wait till you've heard it before you
           comment!

M Cecys    You can use up to 64k for an instrument.
           Remember, that combining synth techniques with
           sampling can create very good instruments with
           even less than 16K.

Rogue Sys  Is there a stand alone desktop sequence player
           included, and are the sounds driven by the sound
           tools, or have you rewritten them too?

M Cecys    SynthLAB is an application that uses a new system
           tool called MIDI Synth.

Rogue Sys  Re: 64k limit, there is the capability to jam up
           to 128k if a new GS ever comes and it'd be
           transparent to current software.

ELECTMUSIC You are supporting the standard Midi File Format
           that the industry has set up?

M Cecys    Yes we are.  By the time the final version of
           synthLAb is out, Importing/exporting should be
           there.

ELECTMUSIC Great!

PGauthier  One last question: will the developer package
           contain source code?

M Cecys    There will be example code in the package.done

AFC DaveS  An "Us versus Them" question...we are having the
           3rd Annual Computer Show-Off here at my college
           on the 31st of March...we'll be going up against
           Amigas and such...any chance that current popular
           computing platforms could even approach the
           quality of the new sound tools?  I don't wanna
           get smoked like last year!

AFL TimB   Dave, my offer to demo at your show still stands.
           With Mark's permission I'd even show off the MIDI
           Synth Tool.

AFC DaveS  I'm pretty sure that with the limited voice range
           of the Amiga and (hahah) Atari ST, they wouldn't
           be able to muster up anything complex, but their
           samples have been cleaner-sounding in the past.

M Cecys    I haven't heard any computer come close to MIDI
           Synth.

AFL TimB   Dave, I have to concur with Mark's statement.

The Ronz   What is the MAXIMUM number of instruments your
           tool can play AT ONE TIME??

M Cecys    By using 4 oscillators per voice, this gives us 7
           instruments at once.  The voice stealing makes it
           sound like more.

DangardAce Assuming synthlab will let you create
           waveforms/instruments at the touch of a button
           and we don't have to worry about using up vast
           quantities of disk space for sampled sounds, is
           it possible or will Apple ever consider producing
           a REAL waveform analyzer so we can do fast
           fouriers and curve fitters to clean up the sound
           sampled from existing digitizers?

M Cecys    A big advantage of synthesis vs. sampling is that
           instruments use very little memory.  Writing a
           full-blown wave editor is something thats up to
           developers. I wish we could.

DangardAce Someone should

M Cecys    I used Alchemy on the Mac and I wish there was
           something like that on the GS.

AFL TimB   I'd like to thank Mark for joining us again
           tonight.  Trust me, when you hear the new tool
           and SynthLAB you're going to be impressed too!
           This is the most significant step forward for the
           GS since 5.0 and for GS Music and Sound since the
           Gs came out!

ELECTMUSIC Thank you and you're support for the GS and
           music!

M Cecys    Thanks, we're trying.

AFA Gene   Tim, did you mention that we have a new AFC?

AFL TimB   Folks, please welcome Lindsay Hough as our new
           kinda-AFC, LindsayGS. His work with Sysex has
           really helped the cause!

M Cecys    I'm glad someone finally wrote a SYSEX program.

LindsayGS  Well, it's real simple, compared to what you guys
           have been up to!

AFL TimB   Now to fit it into an NDA that'll work with
           Mastertracks.

AFA Gene   A BIG week in the history of the Musical
           Instrument Digital Interface!!!!!!

AFA Bruce  Tim, have you noticed that Pro doesn't accept
           NDA's?

AFL TimB   Bruce, mine accepts 'em but crashes on them.

LindsayGS  I think the programming will open up with Mark's
           new tools.

AFL TimB   Lindsay think that Passport isn't following
           memory guidelines.

DangardAce MT Pro has a problem accepting regular input.

LindsayGS  That may be the problem with an NDA SysEx on MT

AFL TimB   Don't forget that if Mark reveals Apple's secrets
           we won't have him working on GS Sound any more!
           Once again I would like to thank Mark for coming
           and would like to thank all of you for asking
           such great questions.  Good Night.

America Online, 1990.