Apple II Music & Sound Conference
May 23, 1990  10:00pm ET
Subject:   BGSound CDA & SynthLab
Forum Leader:  Tim Barwick (AFL TimB)

AFL TimB   This is a Bring Yer Own Topic night, but I hope
           we'll spend some time talking about Parik's new
           CDA Background Sound.  Gene, could you add a note
           to SOundSmith saying that you need to run from
           floppies if you have only  1.25 meg memory.

HyperRam   That thing crashes alot.

AFL TimB   Anyone not seen or heard of it yet.  (Not for me
           it doesn't Ram)

AFA Gene   <== listening to JCD MegaBlaster right now in the
           background.

AFL TimB   Anyone need an explanation or description.

HyperRam   Well, with HyperLaunch-it DIES..everything except
           maybe AWGS, it works.

AFC JoyceM Tim, why not give a short synopsis of the
           program.

AFA Gene   Hopefully Joey will come up with some way to have
           Soundmaster compatible with SoundSmith/BGSound.

AFL TimB   Background Sound is a Classic Desk Accessory from
           parik Rao (aka AFA Parik).  Background Sound
           (BGS) allows you to listen to (a) digitized
           sounds (B) SoundSmith songs and (c) once you have
           the new MIDI Synth Tool, sequences that use the
           new tool. It does this while you're doing other
           things.  Like being online.  Only issue is that
           its best to wait until you're in the program
           before you use BGS. i.e. run America Online and
           THEN load in a song.

HyperRam   Once=five years...are they done beta testing the
           tool yet?

AFC JoyceM Will it work with HS sounds?

AFL TimB   Ram, how long has the tool been in beta?

HyperRam   I don't know..

AFL TimB   Joyce, yes it'll work with almost any sound file
           format including HS and also ACE'd files.

AFL TimB   Ram the answer is 2 weeks.

HyperRam   2 weeks is a lot.. (unless it's really big)..

AFL TimB   Everyone who's heard has been pretty impressed
           (at least that's my opinion).

LindsayGS  Bill Holland told me today that APDA told him
           they weren't selling it!

AFL TimB   Ram, not for Apple it isn't.  It'll be a month or
           two yet.

AFL TimB   Lindsay, can you explain?   Who's Bill Holland?

LindsayGS  Bill Holland said he called APDA about Synthlab
           and they told him to call Redgate about it....(it
           gets worse)!

AFL TracyP Redgate??!?!!??!

LindsayGS  Redgate told him I was selling synthlab!  (they
           confused it with SXGS)

AFL TimB   Who's Redgate and who's Bill Holland?

AFL TracyP Redgate = Apple IIGS Buyer's Guide.

AFL TimB   Lindsay, I bet you wish you wrote synthLAB.

LindsayGS  Bill holland is a new AO MIDI user.

GerryR5    What is SXGS?

LindsayGS  SysExGS - is a MIDI utility for the GS that I
           wrote.

AFL TimB   Well APDA has their head somewhere else!!  APDA
           has the new MIDI Tool and synthLAB.  They'll be
           releasing it soon (we hope to developers)  Some
           people already have developers packages.

LindsayGS  Too bad they couldn't tell him that!

AFL TimB   ALso new tool will be on the next system disk, no
           question about that. If you want the real info
           you gotta come to AO.

LindsayGS  Synthlab , too?

AFL TimB   Lindsay, they'll put synthLAB on if there's room.

Mac Hater  It'll be on the tools disk since there is no
           room, so people will have to install it.  more
           headaches!

AFL TimB   MacHater, not too difficult.

Mac Hater  No, but most users won't have it on their system
           disk.

AFL TimB   And the sound quality is worth it.

AFL TracyP System Disk 5.0.2 is almost full with nothing
           else added!  Takes a hard disk to appreciate it
           fully!

LindsayGS  That's the problem for non-HD users

AFL TimB   The tool is about 30k.

Mac Hater  There are other things besides the tools that
           take priority (speed enhancements, more ROM 03
           fixes, bigger finder, etc.).  If we had 1.44MB
           disks, it would be the GS usable with one
           drive..(right now, it's no fun with only one
           drive)!

AFL TimB   One nice thing with synthLAB is that you can put
           the new tool (TOOL035) in synthLAB's own folder
           if you want.

LindsayGS  Does anybody know if they plan to make the source
           code for SynthLab available?  It does about 50%
           of everything you want.

AFL TimB   Lindsay, dunno.  Good question though.

LindsayGS  So extending it is like re-inventing the wheel.

Chbby Chsr What sound file type is used by the Soundmaster
           here, and can the Sonic Blaster make those kind
           of files?

AFL TimB   Chbby, most kinds of unpacked digitized sound
           file.  Hyperstudio, Sonic Blaster are both fine.

Chbby Chsr OK, I want to make sure that if I get a SB I can
           upload some stuff of my own.

LindsayGS  Isn't Audio Animator a better choice now?

AFL TimB   Lindsay, if you want to shed the extra $100 sure.

AFL TimB   Chbby, should be no problem.  You'll have to deal
           with the relentless eyes of AFA Gene the Software
           Librarian.

AFL TracyP Tim, what software will run the files marked
           "MIDI" in the New Files Lib?

AFL TimB   Tracy, Mastertracks and Audio Animator (in some
            cases for now).

AFA Gene   Anything that recognizes MIDI File Format.

AFL TracyP Will SynthLab run them?

AFL TimB   We're waiting on a MIDI to synthLAB file
           converter right now.

AFL TracyP How about DT?

AFL TimB   No to both those Tracy.,

AFA Gene   Nope, they don't support MIDI FF unfortunately.

AFL TimB   I used the beta ShrinkIt GS to get those files,
           some were ARC'd (IBM compression) some were
           Stuffed (Mac compression).  I got 'em from GEnie
           and the MMS forum.

HyperRam   How come you guys get ALL the good stuff???

AFL TimB   Ram, I had to BEG to be a beta!  BEG!!!

AFA Gene   Stairway to Heaven is a weird arrangement...
           starts out with drums... but it's set perfectly
           for Roland drum machines/synths.

AFL TimB   Gene, I can't get Stairway to play on my synth.

AFA Gene   It plays beautifully on mine, Tim, but whoever
           arranged it had a demented vision of how the song
           should go!

Chbby Chsr Not sure what from-keyboard-and-mouse layout
           software AA has... I know SB has it.

AFL TimB   AA is a clone of SB with MIDI.  Same programmer
           wrote both.

AFL TracyP Who's working on the MIDI -> SynthLab convert?

AFL TimB   Tracy, I can't say right now. Don't wanna put
           pressure on the guy.

AFL TracyP OK, Apple or otherwise?

AFL TimB   Otherwise.

AFL TracyP OK, then there's a chance we'll see it.

HyperRam   AA software is better!  Because on the about
           screen of SB software, the heads get messed up.
           The SB software screws up on me.

LindsayGS  I heard the AA sequencer was buggy.

AFL TimB   Lindsay I have a copy of the software in front of
           me.  v1.3.

AFL TracyP I'm serious!  How long have we heard about
           SynthLab, and can I get a copy from the
           publisher?  Forget it!

Mac Hater  It's meant for developers only (apda)

AFL Marty  It'll be one year this July, Tracy.

AFL TimB   In the interim we've seen 5.0 and a new GS
           (kinda) they have more than one project to work
           one.

AFL Marty  An alpha version was shown at A2 Central
           Developers Conference last July.

AFL TracyP Right, Marty.

HyperRam   Realistically, how many programs are going to
           use synthlab?

MIKE159    Who knows anything about SoundSmith???

Mac Hater  I think more programs are gonna be using
           SoundSmith.

HyperRam   I haven't seen 3 programs that use SS.

Chbby Chsr I only know Soundsmith isn't in our library.

AFL TimB   That's why Background Sound is so nice, it
           support both SoundSmith and new tool.

MIKE159    I can't get mine to run anymore. I have a 20meg
           hard drive.  And everytime I try to run it, it
           says "System error $2000.

LindsayGS  Mike, error $2000 is a Midi tool set startup
           error..may need another boot path.

AFL TimB   Mike, boot it from the floppy.  That'll do the
           job.

MDW Flyer  What's new on the MIDI front, and anything new
           regarding DiversiTune?

AFL TimB   MDW, Bill says he's working on it.  I'll believe
           it when I see it.

AFL Marty  By the time the synth tool comes out, will anyone
           care anymore?

Mac Hater  A new game is coming out in the next few weeks
           that uses Soundsmith.

AFL TimB   Chbby, we have SoundSmith here in our software
           library under Applications (that right Gene?)

AFA Gene   Under IIGS Music/IIGS SoundSmith, Tim and Chubby.

HyperRam   I'm talking about a real game...

MIKE159    I don't have the whole file, just the smaller
           one.

MDW Flyer  What about the new MIDI / Synth tools we heard
           about last year.

AFL TimB   MDW, they're in beta (listening to them now) and
           will be out Real Soon Now!

AFC JoyceM What is the latest version of SoundSmith, and
           what is new?

AFL TimB   Joyce, we have 0.9 still.

HyperRam   v.94 is the latest.

AFL TimB   If anyone gets 0.94 please upload it.  Thanks.

AFC JoyceM Are they still making the program productive.

Mac Hater  Yes.  please upload v0.94.

MDW Flyer  I've had some nice results converting some Pascal
           from MAC to IIgs, but TML II still doesn't like
           all the MIDI tool calls.

AFA Gene   Any changes of interest in 0.94 Hyper?

HyperRam   I don't know..

AFL TimB   Lindsay you're a TML II'er.  Any comments?

LindsayGS  Flyer - I had to rewrite the MIDI TML extension,
           there were several fatal bugs.  The docs on the
           tool don't match the parameters in the tool
           extension units.

MDW Flyer  How so?  My tool reference for MIDI may be dated.

HyperRam   TML II is not a successful program.

LindsayGS  MDW, do you have volume 3?

MDW Flyer  I kind of guessed that comparing arguments.

MDW Flyer  But what did you have to rewrite?

LindsayGS  I rewrote and recompiled the Midi tool unit.
           -want a copy?

MDW Flyer  No volume III, just the APDA update for 5.0.
           Would like a copy sure.

LindsayGS  You can order tool box volume 3 from APDA -
           essential!  MDW - leave me E-mail to remind me
           and I'll send it to you (uncompiled).

MDW Flyer  I let my membership lapse because of nothing new
           coming out.

Mac Hater  You can order stuff from apda without being a
           member now.

Mac Hater  Who here has Synthlab

AFL TimB   Mac Hater, I do.

Mac Hater  What utilities can you think of besides a MIDI
           converter, a instrument converter?

AFL TimB   Utilities?  None really.  But we need a quality
           sequence editor for it!

Mac Hater  How would you structure a sequence editor?

AFL TimB   MacHater, ever seen Mastertracks Pro or Audio
           Animator?

Mac Hater  Yes.

AFL TimB   That's how I'd structure a Sequence editor,
           anyone else have any thoughts?

MDW Flyer  I've used DeFurias' MIDI Programmers Handbook for
           much of the learning curve.

Mac Hater  But mastertracks pro is 500+ blocks - that's
           loooots of source code.  I've got Defuria's and
           Joe Scacciaferro's book too!

AFL TimB   Mac, but you don't need all their bells and
           whistles.  Note editing would be fine for
           starters.

MDW Flyer  Hey, that's great.  When did that change.

LindsayGS  I for one would like an MT -like program that
           will allow NDAs !

AFL TimB   Maybe velocity control too.  Again, anyone else
           have thoughts on this?

Mac Hater  A sequence editor would be a -lot- of work, with
           little reward.

AFL TimB   MTPro doesn't like any DAs.

AFC JoyceM I want a converter utility!

MDW Flyer  NDA's and mixed other interrupts don't set well
           with most MIDI apps.

LindsayGS  Actually, with the new tool, a basic sequencer is
           real easy - the hard part is the graphical
           interface and the bells and whistles.

AFL TimB   IMHO new Sound Tool will bring a lot of interest
           to the GS as a musical instrument.

AFA Gene   Does anyone here use BGSound with a non-HD setup?

AFC JoyceM No, gene

AFA Gene   I still can't get synthLAB sequences to play.

AFL TimB   It took Parik a half a day to add support for the
           new tool to BGSound.

LindsayGS  I'm gonna try to install it, Gene, just haven't
           yet.

AFC JoyceM Why, Gene...what seems to be the problem?

AFL TimB   Lindsay, how is SysEXGS (or whatever its
           currently called) doing?

LindsayGS  Tim - I got 3 orders in the last 2 weeks - lots
           of interest from the Buyers G.

AFL TimB   Oh don't forget to mark you calenders for August
           1.  Jane Lee (from Apple USA marketing) will be
           joining the AMS and AED forums at 10pm (eastern).

Mac Hater  Do you plan on upgrading Sysexgs to use the new
           tools?

AFA Gene   SysExGS doesn't play thru the Ensoniq, Parik!

LindsayGS  If there's enough interest, I def. will - it'll
           support unlimited SX lengths.

AFA Gene   What would the new tools provide?

AFL TimB   Dang, Parik you're Mac Hater!!! ::embarrassed::

Mac Hater  But the new MIDI tools are faster in processing
           sysex msgs.  and it would be nice in a sequence
           itself.

AFA Gene   More speed?

Mac Hater  I'm glad you didn't say who was writing the MIDI
           converter.

AFL TimB   Talking about Mac Hater I had a REALLY
           interesting conversation yesterday with Mark
           Cecys (author of new tools).  He thought that GS
           owners should cut out the
           'Mac-has-it-I-want-it-too' attitude.  And that we
           should strike out in our own directions.

Mac Hater  I hope he didn't make too much fun of me.

AFL TimB   Parik, he didn't get SHK-3.0 until yesterday so
           he hadn't heard it.

AFC JoyceM Well, that will change to the
           "GS-has-it-I-want-it-too"!!

AFL TimB   But he did have a suggestion for looping synthLAB
           sequences. Too technical for me.

Mac Hater  Have you tried playing FullDemo? it crashes on me
           always.

AFC JoyceM Full Demo works fine for me.

AFL TimB   Note, Joyce has 4 meg memory.

AFA Gene   Parik... EVERYTHING crashes on me always when
           trying to load a synthLAB sequence!

Mac Hater  I tried from a 3.5 Gene!  I swear!  Worked fine.
           I'll try again tonite.

AFA Gene   Parik:   Oh yeah, with 512K free it gives $201,
           but at 1.25 meg free it just freezes on the
           "insert System.Disk" thingie.  Something is wrong
           when it looks for the tool.

AFL TimB   ADAMMED, you downloaded Background Sound yet?

ADAMMED    You bet, Tim, it's incredible, too bad its not
           shareware I'd pay double!!

ADAMMED    To use Bgsound I have to use gs/os, whenever I
           launch AOL from gs/os it crashes, a lot!

Mac Hater  AOL crashes or BGSound?

AFL TimB   Adam, don't start up BGS until you're in AO.

AFL TimB   How much memory do you have Adam?

ADAMMED    It won't run now Tim, oh, the new one, 1.25 meg.

AFA Gene   It also needs the system disk in the drive every
           time BGS is activated...pain.

Mac Hater  No it doesn't Gene.

AFL TimB   Parik changes the versions but doesn't change the
           name on the main screen.

Mac Hater  It'll ask for it (the new version).

AFA Gene   v1.2?, as opposed to v1.1?

Mac Hater  I really messed up the version numbers. sorry
           about that.  I forgot to change it in the program
           itself.

Mac Hater  Yes.  Adammed, try running AOL first, then enter
           BGSound.  With only 1 meg RAM, you're cutting it
           pretty close.

AFA Gene   Hey! I just tried it and it worked! It didn't
           look for the system disk! weird

AFL TimB   Adam, so you have problems running AOL even
           without BGS????

ADAMMED    I know, and thanks, thousands of times.  Yes, a
           while back i tried to launch AO from gs/os and it
           would just kick me off. I left a message with
           customer rep and s/he not to launch it, just run
           it.

AFL TimB   I'm using only 1.25 with no problems guys.

AFL TimB   Adam, if you can't' even load AOL then you should
           call Customer Service.

ADAMMED    No I can run it from its disk, but Bgsound won't
           work w/o gs/os.

LindsayGS  Parik - how do you use resources without needing
           the sys disk? (or do you use resources?)

Mac Hater  I don't, but I know how.  Go to ADV for that, not
           enough time here.  a bit complex.

Mac Hater  Adammed: are you installing GS/OS on your AOL
           disk?

AFL TimB   Adam, you need to create a GS/OS AOL disk.

ADAMMED    No I haven't.

Mac Hater  You _can_ do that.  Just delete every file in the
           */II.FOLDER (MAKE A COPY OF YOUR AOL DISK) and
           then run the system installer.  Click on "UPdate
           System Files (NO FINDER)".  Update your AOL disk.
           There should be just enough room.  Delete every
           file _EXCEPT_ DB11 in the II.FOLDER by the way.

HyperRam   What is DB11?

Mac Hater  It holds your account information.  Kind of
           needed.

AFL TimB   DB11 carries all the info that relates to your
           account.

ADAMMED    Will they bill me if I delete it??

AFL TimB   Parik probably knows every bite in that file,
           Joey certainly does.

Mac Hater  You won't be able to log on if you delete it!

ADAMMED    Can I import instruments from a Mac's music
           program to Soundsmith?

AFL TimB   Parik, you're the SoundSmith resident insider?

Mac Hater  Mac?  Like I'm going to touch one.  Addamed,
           you'll have to get a raw soundfile to do it.  Can
           you do that?

ADAMMED    A what?

Mac Hater  A digitized file, something you can play with
           Soundmaster, etc.

ADAMMED    Oh, so I need a digitizer, never mind.

Mac Hater  More than likely you won't be able to import the
           soundfile without a lot of work Adammed.  Most
           instruments on the mac are different (resources,
           etc)

AFL TimB   Adam, I wouldn't bother.

ADAMMED    See, I tried copying the school's harddrive full
           of instruments with AfE but Soundsmith won't
           recognize, oh well, I need more instruments, I'll
           get them soon.

Mac Hater  Addamed, send AFA PARIK one (1) of the
           instruments you got (just one please).  I'll
           leave you email if I can get it converted.  FUN
           has 6 disks of instruments you can order from
           them.

ADAMMED    Now?

Mac Hater  Anytime (won't get a answer for a day or two).

ADAMMED    What other goodies are available from Fun and how
           much before I send out the $20, I'd rather send
           more and get it all together.

Mac Hater  Send $20 and 8 blank disks, ask for SoundSmith
           and the 6 instrument disks.  Actually if you send
           20 blank disks and ask for the 6 instrument
           disks, the 4 song disks, and Soundsmith it'd be
           best.  (plus $20 of course).

AFL TimB   Huibert is fairly slow to respond but he will
           answer.

ADAMMED    Wait why $20 if I'm going to get 10 or 11 back?

Mac Hater  Give him some blanks!

ADAMMED    Sure, why not. Estimated return time?

AFL TimB   Note: I sent Huibert $40 'cos I was soo impressed
           with SoundSmith.

AFL TimB   Adam, I'd say 6-8 weeks.

AFl TimB   Thanks all for attending.  See you next week.

America Online - 1990