Apple II Music & Sound Conference
November 28, 1990 10pm EST
Subject:  MIDI synth/synthLAB
Guests:   Tim Swihart of Apple Computer Inc (A2Pro Tim)
          Mark Cecys of Apple Computer Inc and programmer
          of MIDI synth/synthLAB  (M Cecys)
Forum Leader:  Joyce Madden (AFL JoyceM)


A2Pro Tim  I got the APDA stuff straightened out today.

AFP TimB   Sooo Tim, what's up with the Apple II?  I  read
           nasty editorial about abandoned computers in some
           editorial column this week that included  the GS.
           Included isn't the word, more like featured.

AFC Eddie  What editorial?

Nuzz       where was that TimB

AFP TimB   It was a trade mag, Resellers Guide maybe?

Nuzz       Reseller News, haven't read it yet

AFL JoyceM The only annoucements I have for this evening
           are:  We have our Holiday Library now
           functional...and Gene will announce our November
           contest winner..and we have some very, VERY
           important guests here tonight.  Tim Swihart of
           Apple Computer Inc who can discuss the new
           MIDIsynth and the licensing info we all need to
           know and hopefully Mark Cecys, the programmer of
           that program will be on line too.  First,
           however, Gene, do we have a winner for our
           November contest?

AFA Gene   Yes, indeed we do.........

AFA Gene   Now, I'd like to note that this month the contest
           had a holiday-related theme.  And, out of the
           MANY uploads we got only ===1=== was a holiday
           song!!!!!!! So....... the prize goes to Counse,
           for his rendition of "Jingle Bells" in
           SoundSmith.

A2Pro Tim  It's so hard to come up with holiday music when
           the holiday is Halloween...  <ducking>

Mr Toaster Oh, I didn't see that.

Nuzz       BOO-Hoo Tim

AFA Gene   And... his file had to be re-hidden due to a
           problem with one of the instrument sound files,
           so look for a bug-free version to be available in
           a day or so.

AFC Eddie  Anyone here to accept on his behalf?

AFL JoyceM Congrats to Counse...who wins 5 hours for FREE
           connect time. Remember, you too could be a winner
           in December....with a Holiday related song/sound
           file.

AFA Gene   Congrats to Counse, and for December let's see
           more HOLIDAY music!!!!! :))

A2Pro Tim  And now, accepting on his behalf is Michael
           Jackson... :-)

AFL JoyceM Also tonight, we will be giving away 2 hours of
           FREE connect time to the person who says the
           secret keyword.  Now...I would like to introduce
           Tim Swihart of Apple...who can discuss the recent
           release of MIDIsynth and why we can't have it on
           AOL and how do we get the program...and any
           questions you all might have.  Tim....welcome :)

Mr Toaster {S WildApplause}

AFP TimB   YEAH!!!!

AFC Eddie  Thanks for joining us, Tim!

A2Pro Tim  Thanks, Joyce!  Greetings fellow Earthlings.
           MIDI Synth/synthLAB is available now from APDA (I
           double checked today to be sure).  You _have_ to
           be a member to order it (or get a friend who is a
           member to order for you) since it's still beta.

A2Pro Tim  (pausing for comments)

AFL Floyd  Is it licensable yet?

A2Pro Tim  Price is $25 and be sure to use the part number
           when ordering (speeds things up).  The part
           number is:  "A0250LL/A".

AFP TimB   I have it on VERY good information that Tim is
           the reason that midiSYNTH got out of Apple's
           door.

A2Pro Tim  Floyd - YES!!!  It is available for licensing!

AFL Floyd  Do you have to be a developer to license it?
           Just thinking of ways to get it online. ;)

A2Pro Tim  (acutally, I slid it under the door...)  <just
           kidding>

A2Pro Tim  Floyd - NO!  You just have to contact our
           Software Licensing department, fill out the
           forms,....pay the fee (fifty bucks I think) and
           then you're set to distribute the MIDI Synth tool
           set with your app.

AFP TimB   We already have software written by one of our
           ace onliners that will utilize it!!

AFL Floyd  Hear that, Joyce? :)

A2Pro Tim  It's not directly licensable for online
           distribution.  It has to be included with an app.

Nuzz       What is included in the licensed disk

AFP TimB   Tim, as its beta software can we distribute it
           electronically?

Mac Hater  If anyone (hint, hint) will pay the $50 I will
           provide an application so it can be put online...

A2Pro Tim  The licensed disk is EXACTLY the same as the APDA
           disk (Software Licensing may require you get the
           APDA product as well to get the disk and
           manuals).  Manuals can NOT be distributed, only
           the software.

AFP TimB   How about a price break for Parik?

Nuzz       It includes the tool, waves, and instrument
           files?

AFL Floyd  So if someone who licensed it uploaded it with an
           application that used it, that would be legal?

A2Pro Tim  Floyd - just to be POSITIVE, I highly recommend
           checking with Software Licensing.  :-)

AFP TimB   (Pass the buck time)  :)

A2Pro Tim  I asked them that question in the past and was
           told (roughly) that HOW the developers distribute
           their apps is their business.  Again, check for
           yourself to be certain.

AFL Floyd  When I was certified, I seem to remember that I
           could distribute ProDOS (which I had licensed) in
           just about any manner with my application (BLU :)

A2Pro Tim  Mike - Yes, the entire APDA disk is what Software
           Licensing has (I gave them the same thing I gave
           APDA).  synthLAB can be used to modify some of
           the stuff that comes with the package, so it made
           sense to include it with the licensed package.

AFL JoyceM TimS, do you have the Software Licensing phone
           number handy?   **************  Also, we must
           welcome the programmer of the software, Mark
           Cecys is now online too *************  Hi Mark
           and welcome :)

A2Pro Tim  Joyce, according to the inside cover of the Fall
           '90 APDAlog Software Licensing's number is
           1-408-974-4667.

Nuzz       Super job Mark. Thanks from all GS owners...

AFC Eddie  Ditto!

M Cecys    thanks.

ELECTMUSIC Mark/Tim.... have any of the wavebanks been
           changed for the Licensed version?

A2Pro Tim  (all the sequences from the APDA disk are part of
           the licensable package as well since I had
           several requests to do so.)

A2Pro Tim  <--- passes buck on wavebank question to Mark.

Mac Hater  no

M Cecys    I don't any reason why not. I havn't the final
           version yet.

A2Pro Tim  (Mark - that's because you didn't tell me your
           mail stop, so I can't send you a copy of it)  :-)

A2Pro Tim  (Tim B - you asked for a price break for Parik a
           minute ago [almost missed it].  Can you
           elaborate?)

ELECTMUSIC Mark... do you mean that the wavebanks can still
           be changed between now and the final version?

AFP TimB   Parik wrote the first application that uses
           Tool035.  Background Sound.

Mr Toaster What is Tool035 again?

M Cecys    Sorry, wrong question. The wave banks are the
           same.

A2Pro Tim  Tool035 is the "MIDI Synth" tool.

M Cecys    MIDI synth is a music synthesizer, sequencer and
           MIDI interface system tool.

A2Pro Tim  Tim - I'd have to argue that Mark wrote the first
           MIDI Synth app, so he's the one that should get a
           price break.  :-)

AFP TimB   Ah shaddup Tim. :)

Nuzz       Quickie tech question. Were the waves digitized
           at 26,300 Khz ?

M Cecys    They were sampled at many different rates and
           then resampled again till they sound right.

AFC Eddie  How about a rough idea as to when SynthLAB will
           no longer be Beta?

A2Pro Tim  When it's done...  :-)

Mac Hater  So what are you up to now Mr. Cecys?

ELECTMUSIC Mark... could you explain the wavebank file
           structure?

M Cecys    MH..c'on you know the standard line...;(

A2Pro Tim  Does it matter that much when it'll no longer be
           beta?  It is available (even though it's
           beta)...that's the big half of the battle.

AFA Gene   Question: Will there be any new Apple-produced
           wavebanks in the future?

AFC Eddie  Good question!

AFC Eddie  But still not done?  If it weren't beta, it
           wouldn't be limited to APDA members!

A2Pro Tim  Yep, but is it that big of a price to pay to have
           it NOW versus waiting til it's final?

Mac Hater  Beta (from Apple) usually implies no new
           features, just bug-fixes left.

A2Pro Tim  It's also available for licensing now (something
           that doesn't happen often with beta versions).

AFC Eddie  true.

Nuzz       Often?, I've never seen that before

A2Pro Tim  (neither of which were easy to pull off)  :-)9

AFP TimB   How many arms did you  twist Tim?

A2Pro Tim  Most of them...  :-)

AFL JoyceM So I could just write an application and put it
           up in AMS along with the tool and have it
           licensed and all would be legal?

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - if I recall correctly, Yes.  Double check
           with Software Licensing yourself though.  :-)

ELECTMUSIC Mark.... anything on the file structure of the
           wavebanks.. also any new ones to be released?

A2Pro Tim  Including Mark's and his boss's to get last
           minute changes to the manual (both of which were
           VERY big helps in getting this product out!!!!!)

Mac Hater  that sentence didn't make much sense Tim...

AFP TimB   HOw does the tool stand with the Apple Corps
           suit?

A2Pro Tim  MacHater - yes it does, it went with the earlier
           one about twisting arms.

AFP TimB   TIm, who's your contact in Software Licensing?

A2Pro Tim  It shouldn't matter who in Software Licensing you
           talk to - they're all supposed to be able to
           handle all the stuff that's licensable (they keep
           a pretty up to date list of what's available).

AFL JoyceM ....hint, both Mark C and TimS have said the word
           several times :)

ELECTMUSIC Tim.... could you gives us any ideas what/who
           many new software developers are working with the
           tool

A2Pro Tim  ElectMusic - I'm not sure how many are working
           with it.  I don't have the seed list and it JUST
           got released.

M Cecys    EM..There's only so much we can do here. Hopefuly
           when MS gets around to you all, we'll see more
           waves

AFL JoyceM Mark C, is the program basically bug free now?
           And what is the latest version number?

M Cecys    Joyce..Software is NEVER bug free! But it's in
           pretty good shape (I think?).

A2Pro Tim  "who many"???  :-)

AFP TimB   I  want a midiSYNTH sequencer!!!!  (Sorry I had
           to say that)

AFL Marty  Do you have any guesstimates on the release date
           for the tool?

A2Pro Tim  Marty - the tool's released now (as a beta).  Are
           you asking about 'final' dates?

AFL Marty  Yes. I have the beta from KansasFest and I know
           that it's pretty close to final.

Mac Hater  Was the scroll-bar problem fixed in the view-seq?

M Cecys    MH..Nothing fixed yet on the scroll bars yet.

A2Pro Tim  Marty - I don't have "public" dates for final
           right now.  Sorry.

AFL Marty  I suspect its release can't be that far off. I
           see.  Thanks.

A2Pro Tim  Marty - there's been a bug fix since the KFest
           stuff. APDA has 1.0b3, KFest was 1.0b2

AFL JoyceM Toaster, you finally said the secret word :)  Two
           hours coming your way:)

ELECTMUSIC Tim,  is Apple interested in ideas for
           evangelizing the new Tool?

A2Pro Tim  Elect - I'm ALWAYS interested in such!  As part
           of the A2 Product Marketing group, Developer
           Support stuff is what I do.  Evangelism is close
           to what I do, so you bet I'm interested.

AFL Marty  I guess I'll have to get it from APDA then.
           Thanks for the info.

A2Pro Tim  (which word was the secret word?)

AFL JoyceM (Synthesizer or synth was the secret word) :)
           Congrats.... Mr Toaster)

AFL JoyceM TimS, any word from APDA on when they can ship
           the program.  I ordered it last week on the 21st
           :)

AFP TimB   You have a job title yet Tim?

AFL JoyceM Oh...and do you have to be a member of APDA to
           purchase it?

AFL Marty  I think it's something like "His Most Worshipful
           Lordship" or something like that. :)

A2Pro Tim  Tim - nothing formal (still waiting to hear so I
           can get my biz cards changed).  :-)

Nuzz       I'd like to be a market-a-zoid, is Apple Hiring

ELECTMUSIC Tim,  what about some of the past developers like
           Applied Engineering and Pyware and Passport
           design.  These companys have turned out FINE
           music products for the GS.

AFL Marty  Yeah but the crown and purple robe are a bit
           much.

A2Pro Tim  ElectMusic - full-blown Evangelism will come from
           another person in our group.  I do the developer
           tools/licensing/system software/etc stuff.

AFL JoyceM TimS....does one have to be a member of APDA to
           purchase MIDIsynth?

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - MIDI Synth/synthLAB has to be ordered by
           a member.

Mr Toaster $25 membership, $25 program.

AFL Marty  Can a member order it for someone else?

A2Pro Tim  $20 membership!   Not $25!

AFL JoyceM So....that encourages all who want MIDIsynth to
           join APDA.

PeterL25   Are there any other advantages to being an APDA
           member? :)

A2Pro Tim  (I took the membership fee into account when I
           set the price)

Mr Toaster Of course... APDA's not stupid.

Mac Hater  I wonder if one could order Synthlab and sell it
           for $30...

AFL Marty  Can a member order for someone else?

AFL JoyceM Good question,. Marty :)

Mr Toaster Marty, why not?

PeterL25   Parik, profit..  It's the American way! :)

AFL Marty  I don't know.  Just thought it would be wise to
           ask before I did it.

A2Pro Tim  Marty - I'm reading the fine print in the license
           agreement to see if I can answer your question...

AFL JoyceM offer TimS a magnifying glass ::)

A2Pro Tim  OK...Item 1 of the software license agreement
           says...."...You may transfer all your license
           rights in the Software, the backup copy of the
           Software, the related documentation and a copy of
           this license to another party provided the other
           party reads and agrees to accept the terms of
           this License."

AFL Marty  Wow! Thanks!

Mr Toaster "...indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for
           all."

AFC Eddie  In other words, it's not a license to sell the
           software.

AFA Gene   Does the license allow you to distribute SynthLAB
           as well as the Tool along with your application?

AFL Marty  Since I'm an APDA member and I'm gonna order
           MidiSYNTH for myself...if anyone here would like
           a copy just let me know via EMail.

A2Pro Tim  The License says "transfer".  It doesn't say
           anything about price.  I think your "customer"
           would get upset about paying ABOVE cost for it
           though.  :-)

AFL Marty  It'll cost you $25 plus postage.

A2Pro Tim  APDA doesn't permit "resellers" either.

Nuzz       Mark, I was curious to why the tempo field in
           SynthLab is only 2 digits long?

M Cecys    Nuzz..there are only 256 tempo values.

Nuzz       Right Mark, but the tempo only goes to 99 in
           SynthLab.  Oh, its in Hex?

M Cecys    Nuzz..that's just a limit in synthLAB. MIDI synth
           goes to 255.

Nuzz       I understand that Mark, I was just curious why
           there was that limit

M Cecys    Nuzz..I was too lazy to make a control that goes
           beyond 2 digits.

AFL JoyceM I am also a member of APDA.....and have ordered
           it...but not received it yet!

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - it should have started shipping today
           (there was a snag due to the holidays)

FeinDavid  Mark (Cecys)...  Incredible work!  I love the
           interface too!

A2Pro Tim  You could always call APDA and ask them...  :-)

AFP TimB   Mark has an affinity for the NeXT interface. :)

Mac Hater  ahh, hex.  that would explain a lot.  :)

AFL Marty  Do you have the item number Tim? (sorry to be
           such a pain)

A2Pro Tim  "A0250LL/A"  :-)

A2Pro Tim  It probably missed the deadline for the next
           APDAlog also, so don't freak out if it's not in
           there. :)

AFA Gene   Question for TimS: does the license allow you to
           distribute synthlab as well as the tool w/ your
           app?

Mac Hater  we've gone over that Gene.

AFA Gene   sorry i missed it

A2Pro Tim  Gene - which license?  The one on the back of the
           package (the shrinkwrap license) or are you
           referring to a license to distribute it from
           Software Licensing?

AFA Gene   the $50 one.  (developers)

PeterL25   So does being an APDA member offer anything
           besides the option to buy Synth?

A2Pro Tim  Ah....Technically, you could distribute synthLAB
           as well (it's on the licensable disk).  But for
           most apps it doesn't make sense to do so.

AFL Marty  You can buy other beta products Peter.

PeterL25   What else does APDA have in the works right now?

Mac Hater  (I predict we'll have synthlab online in a few
           weeks!)

A2Pro Tim  Peter - yes...

PeterL25   Specifics? :)

AFP TimB   Hopefully sooner PR.

AFC Eddie  No complaints here!

A2Pro Tim  You get a catalog four times a year with all of
           APDA's products (A2 & Mac), articles, and the
           "right" to purchase beta products.

FeinDavid  So synthLAB can be uploaded here for users to
           download?

AFA Gene   Who's gonna pay the 50 bucks, TB and PR (since
           everyone is using initials here) Quantum i hope??

AFP TimB   Don't worry about it GK. :)

AFL JoyceM jpm, I hope :)

A2Pro Tim  Gene - online won't get you the docs.  There's a
           lot to synthLAB that you need to docs (beyond the
           basics).

ELECTMUSIC Mark or Tim... do you for see any future
           developements for Music and the GS by Apple?

AFP TimB   Jane Lee'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
           Cement undershoes. :)

AFL JoyceM :)

AFA Gene   yeah, i know what you're saying, TimS.

A2Pro Tim  "undershoes"?

AFL JoyceM Marketable undershoes at that!

AFP TimB   I have GS Disk 5.0 but no dox, and I'm still
           breathing. :)

AFL Marty  It's a Brit thing, Tim :)

AFP TimB   Underwear?

A2Pro Tim  ah...By itself, MIDI Synth/synthLAB can NOT be
           distributed online.

Nuzz       No Dox, shame on you Tim

AFP TimB   Real men don't read dox. :)

AFC Eddie  Or undershoes!

AFA Gene   Real men CAN'T read.

Nuzz       And their computers don't work either

AFL JoyceM And they crash harddrives easier too :)

AFL Marty  By the way, I've seen an XCMD for HyperStudio
           that plays MidiSYNTH tunes.  It is most
           excellent. :)  (I guess I should say that I have
           -heard- it :)

A2Pro Tim  (Tim doesn't have docs, that's why he doesn't
           know about 34u 5341g542tc3n)  :-)

Nuzz       I'm hoping to have that thing play in the
           background of Hyperstudio soon

AFP TimB   That would be nice Mike. Mike, you going to
           Afest?

Nuzz       Not this time Tim, but we should be represented

AFL JoyceM Well, I guess my major project is to contact
           Licensing to see how we (AMS) stands for
           applications with MIDIsynth.

A2Pro Tim  Tim B - you coming to AFest?

AFP TimB   Sure am, in the AO Booth. :) Doing seminars.
           Harassing Apple employees about why the GS port
           is mono.

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - you'll need a product.

AFL JoyceM :)  Right, TimS.

AFA Gene   TimS: we got the Motts. :)

AFL JoyceM TimB will be demoing Music & Sound

A2Pro Tim  Great!  I'll come harass you about why the GS
           version of AOL is missing...  :-)

AFL Marty  Yeah!

AFP TimB   It'll be out along with the GS version of GEnie.

Nuzz       You and a thousand other people

A2Pro Tim  <--- has a IIGS version of GEnie, it's called
           CoPilot  :-)

AFL JoyceM It is getting late....if we don't have any more
           questions for both TimS and Mark C...we can call
           it a night....a good and informative night, I
           might might add.......and I personally would like
           to thank Mark C and TimS for stopping by and
           taking a lot of heated questions, and giving the
           correct answers :)

Nuzz       I'd like to thank them both for getting this out
           the door. Thanks guys

AFC Eddie  Thanks, Tim and Mark!

A2Pro Tim  You're welcome!  Thanks for inviting me.

AFL Marty  These guys should get a raise.

M Cecys    Thanks, we appreciate your interest in sound on
           the GS.

AFP TimB   Mark is great, TIm ain't so bad either.

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - no problem!  Glad we can talk publicly
           about MIDI Synth now!

AFL JoyceM You both were and are great sports :)  This AMS
           group can be very cruel!

AFA Gene   Mark/Tim, we appreciate YOUR interest in it as
           well! :)

A2Pro Tim  Now, go order a zillion copies of it so APDA
           freaks out.  :-)

M Cecys    Joyce, remember the $100 you promised for showing
           up..:)

AFP TimB   I'm gonna go and ignore myself.

AFL Marty  I'll be happy to do it. :)

AFL JoyceM Gee, Mark...do you have that in writing :)

AFP TimB   Tim, when are the animation tools due?

A2Pro Tim  Yes, MIDI Synth is shipping from APDA.  You have
           to be a member (like I warned months in advance)
           to order it.  Price is $25, part number is
           "A0250LL/A", phone number is 1-800-282-2732.

AFP TimB   Is it true to run midiSYNTH you need 1.5 meg of
           memory, 5.0.3 and a hard drive?

A2Pro Tim  Tim B - you have your rumors crossed again.  :-)

AFP TimB   Damn!

M Cecys    synthLAB runs with no problems on a standard 1meg
           system. and any 5.x system.

Nuzz       Someone is always hot about something here

AFA Gene   At least it doesn't cost $700 to be a member. :)

Nuzz       If Apple gave away New GS's, someone would
           complain. <sigh>

A2Pro Tim  Nuzz - you've got a point!  :-)

AFL JoyceM $20 for APDA membership and $25 for MIDI
           synth....not bad.

AFL JoyceM .....okay I think we can make this a wrap......it
           was a good and informative chat...thanks  TimS
           and Mark C....

AFP TimB   Be sure to visit your favorite online network for
           extensive coverage of any new product
           annoucementsand support.

AFL JoyceM We will have to do this again... :)

AFP TimB   I'd speciaally recommend logging on at 10am on
           Applefest Friday.

AFL JoyceM why 10am, TimB?

AFP TimB   Oh I don't know Joyce, just a wild guess.

A2Pro Tim  Joyce - that's when the exhibit floors open and
           the traditional "what's new on the floor" postsgo
           up on all the nets.  Most of the "new" stuff is
           spotted the night before during setup.  :-)

AFL JoyceM Really curious to know if HypercardGS will be
           finally announced :)

A2Pro Tim  <-- used to work online booths before coming to
           Apple.  :-)

AFP TimB   Maybe that'd be a good time to check on that too
           Joyce, you never know.

A2Pro Tim  Nuzz - I believe HCGS was acknowledged during
           Jane & Ralph's conference.

AFL JoyceM Will mark my calendar for 10 on the 7th.  Is that
           10am EST?

AFP TimB   Might be worth a try.

A2Pro Tim  10 am PST (Long Beach is on West Coast)

AFP TimB   Good point TS.  I'm not used to Left Coast time.

Nuzz       Is there still going to be the shows in NJ?

AFL JoyceM Night all....thanks for coming by

America Online - 1990